"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas 202 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  AGuest

  It puzzles me that you can quote scripture to backstop your faith, SA, yet deny scripture as the source of your faith?

  I don't quote [scripture] as the backdrop of my faith, dear Nikolas (peace to you!). Indeed, I do quote the Bible (both scripture and non-scripture); however, would that I never needed to quote it at all! BUT... unfortunately... there are those who won't believe a thing... unless they SEE it... in writing (perhaps like you, for example, as to what the Bible says is "scripture"). And, of course, such writing MUST be "in the Bible."

  It is a very sad state of affairs, indeed... that such walk by sight and not by faith. But it is what it is. IF, however, they had the Law that is the NEW Covenant written on their HEARTS... so that they could walk by FAITH and NOT by sight, I wouldn't need to ever again refer to a truth that is also mentioned in the Bible. THEY wouldn't need it. In truth, it is tedious, time consuming, and sometimes discouraging for me. But, I do what I have to... for THEIR sake... and their faith (such as it is at this point). Because my Lord loves them... and I love him... so I love them, as well.

  You claim devine inspiration.

  It really isn't all that... ummmmm... ominous, dear one. Truly. It just is.

  But I have not been afforded such a gift, so how can I know you speak the truth?

  You can ASK. The One who granted me such gifts. You can ask HIM. Truly, you DON'T have to take MY word for anything (I wouldn't take YOURS!). And indeed, you shouldn't! You should ask for yourself!

  Man's failure to do that, however... ask... is the very reason he continues to be misled. From Eve on. Eve should have asked, if she didn't already know... or doubted... just to be sure: "Is what this one saying TRUE, Lord?" But, nope. She didn't ask. Why? Because she didn't want to know the truth (c'mon, she had already been told what would happen! She didn't want to believe it. She wanted to be lied to, deceived. She wanted what that one told her to be true. She wanted... to believe the LIE... as evidenced by what she DID: ate. Each one is enticed by HIS OWN DESIRES).

  You anticipate my response well.

  Well, of course, dear one. Because there's nothing new under the sun. You have already evidenced, by your words here, where your heart is, haven't you? It does not take a spirit medium to know. I mean, it's not like your asking as to these things, as if you want an answer. Your words and questions are merely statements of what you've already concluded, yes? And so, if your position is "A"... then your response is, more likely than not, going to be "B", yes? No need to conjure up a spirit or use any supernatural "gift" to see that.

  I understand YOUR "zeal" for what you believe you know as regards these things, dear Nikolas. But I have to point out that, unlike some who at least have their facts better organized, if not accurate, you have a bit of a way to go... if you think the Bible is entirely scripture. That is the teaching of man... and NOT of God, Christ... or the Bible itself.

  I hope this helps and, again, I bid you peace!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  myelaine

  dear AGuest...

  "Each time, however, I would find nothing near what I was looking for. Oh, yes, I heard a WHOLE lot of words that SOUNDED like I was "among" or "near" those like me. But eventually, time would show that the words were just that... words... and actually quite empty. Most were following men, and many were only "christians" on, say, the weekend or during assembly times, etc."

  "We make ourselves fools for those we love on the earth. Why not take it one step further and be a fool for those we love who exist in the "heavens"? Because of our faith... and humility... some of us can. Because of a lack of faith... and pride... some of us can't. NONE of us, however, should judge the other. Because neither will win any to his way of thinking doing so.

  I bid you all peace... and ask your forgiveness for the revelation of MY truth. I could not help myself."

  do you think FALSE humility could be a symptom of pride and judgementalism?

  love michelle
• 

  Nickolas

  Well, the problem with that view is that for Christians, the bible is NOT held as supreme, Christ is.

  I bid you return to the original post, PSacramento, and read the parallel example. You do not remember your great-great-great-great-grandparents, you likely don't even know their names. You do not know anything about them, what they looked like, the sound of their voices, the warmth of their smiles, nothing at all about their trials and tribulations during their journey in life. In short you know nothing about what made them human. It cannot be denied that who these people were was important, in particular to you. You exist because of them. But you know nothing about them because their stories were not carried forward for you to hear. Similarly, you would know nothing about the details of the life of Jesus of Nazareth and the rationale for his existence and sacrifice unless it was carried forward by the Bible in its current iteration. Christ is held supreme by Christians not because of word of mouth but because of the written word.
• 

  Nickolas

  Your words and questions are merely statements of what you've already concluded, yes?

  Yes, SA, much in the same way as you. I am 58 years old, was raised a Catholic, studied under the Watchtower then continued on my own, saw a different light from what you see. I have come to the conclusion that the God of the Bible does not exist. However, and this is perhaps the major difference between me and you, I will change my mind if presented with sufficiently convincing evidence, the same kind of evidence reported in the Bible to convince skeptical others. Show me a resurrection, preferably of someone I loved in life, someone I can talk to and laugh with and hold and love again, and I will fall down on my knees and I will weep with overwhelming joy and I will believe. That's all I need. What do you need to change your mind?

  By the way, it is Nickolas, with a k.
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  <<One cannot say parts of the Bible are scripture and parts are not.>>

  All scripture is inspired...correct. But not everything in the Bible is scripture. We do not have the original documents. There are different kinds of errors that accompany copying, translating, additions by scribes etc. Many of these errors can be spotted when comparing ancient manuscripts.

  Evangelical Christians see the scriptures as inspired but not necessarily perfect in the form and language we currently have them in...but reliable enough to base one's life, faith and practice. Most of the problems enter in the area of interpretation. But the greatest source of error IMHO is derived from interpolation (i.e. adding to the word of God to establish doctrine).
• 

  PSacramento

  I bid you return to the original post, PSacramento, and read the parallel example. You do not remember your great-great-great-great-grandparents, you likely don't even know their names. You do not know anything about them, what they looked like, the sound of their voices, the warmth of their smiles, nothing at all about their trials and tribulations during their journey in life. In short you know nothing about what made them human. It cannot be denied that who these people were was important, in particular to you. You exist because of them. But you know nothing about them because their stories were not carried forward for you to hear. Similarly, you would know nothing about the details of the life of Jesus of Nazareth and the rationale for his existence and sacrifice unless it was carried forward by the Bible in its current iteration. Christ is held supreme by Christians not because of word of mouth but because of the written word.

  Hence the bible is a GUIDE to Christ and NOT Christ.

  Would I know anything about Christ if not for the bible? No, I probably wouldn't.

  The bible is our source to the sayings of Christ, to the history of Christ yet we can't KNOW Christ thorught the bible, all we can do is know ABOUT Christ.

  I don't know my Great Granparents, but I know about them and in their case, that is all I can know, but that is not the case with Christ.

  I can know Christ BEYOND the bible and that i s what you need to understand about THIS christian ( I can only speak for myself of course):

  I know Christ through Christ because he is NOT dead and buried and th eonly thing that survived is a book with info on Him.

  He lives and is open to ALL they choose to know him to be known by them.

  First hand, not just to knwo about him, but to KNOW him personally.
• 

  AGuest

  The difference is, we are actually talking to you and everyone else can see it happening.

  Yes, which is based on sight, dear Nik (again, peace to you!).

  If God is talking to you alone, you are the only one who hears. That is delusion.

  God is not talking to me, dear one - it is His Son. Who speaks to ALL of us. Unfortunately, all that walking by SIGHT tends to get in the way of HEARING... which is done by FAITH. But I am not the only one who hears. True, there doesn't seem to be great many of us, but we're here.

  I say this gently and with genuine respect, I do think you are delusional.

  BIG SMILE... yes, I hear your gentleness and respect. Truly. I am not being sarcastic. I hear you... although I cannot SEE you. And I absolutely believe you.

  It is clear to me I have pushed a button with you and maybe spoiled your day. I apologise. It was not my intent.

  Oh! Yikes! No, it is me who should apologize to YOU if that's what I led you to believe and feel. My sincerely apologies!! You did not push my buttons at all! I just get a little more passionate when folks start talking about what a "christian" is or isn't. Bugs me, a little, because (1) very few so-called "christian" religions know... so that, unfortunately, (2) MOST get their understanding from the plethora of ones that don't, including (3) one of the most false and heinous harlots, the WTBTS (who absolutely haven't a clue!).

  One is not a christian because one believes in Christ, dear one. The demons believe. Nor is one because one follows the teachings of Christ. That is just a disciple. Nor is one because they read the Bible (Jews read the OT part of the Bible)... or because they adhere to just the NT parts. Or because they believe the Bible is the Word of God (which the WTBTS is pushing on their website right now - ).

  One is a christian, dear one, because one has received the promised holy spirit... the "oil of exultation" by means of which (1) one is chosen as a member of the Body of Christ; (2) one experiences a union with Christ, and (3) Christ, the Holy Spirit teaches and leads such one. All of which is in the Bible - yet, so MANY who call themsleves "christians" have absolutely NO knowledge or clue as to these truths. They often remind me of a lady I saw on television once: she lived in Wisconsin and was ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED that "Jesus" had blonde hair and blue eyes!! HOW does she get that from the Bible?? Of course, she didn't. She's only going on what others... who don't know themselves... told her. Or artists renditions (which are utterly subjective, virtually every one of them!).

  And so, because I was lied to... for SO long... by those who claimed to KNOW... I am passionate... and have obligated myself... to share the truth about these things, just as I recieve them FROM the Truth. I don't charge a fee. No donation box or collection tray. No where for anyone to go and nothing for anyone to join on my behalf. I receive them free... and so I give them free. Whether ones hear or refrain. I do it because, as I said, HE loves them/you... and I love him... so I love you... enough to make myself a fool in front of you. You... the others here... God... the angels. Whoever. That is what TRUE love does.

  Again, I bid you peace, dear Nikolas... and ears to hear when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

  "Come! Take 'life's water'... the oil of exultation, which is the holy spirit of God, the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, which oil/water is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... FREE!"

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  Nickolas

  You feel Him inside you, don't you, PSacramento? I understand that. But He is less of a part of you than your ancestors, whose blood flows through your veins and whose flesh covers your bones. You know Him, but not them. You just know. That's all. You just know. And you believe that this is not learned behaviour but a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. Ok. It doesn't compute with me, but I am completely ok that it is what is important to you.

  We have gone off topic rather badly, but I suppose that was inevitable. I was seeking to debunk the WT proposition of The Truth by revealing the flaws within a couple of small points and have unleashed a flood of negative emotion instead.

  I think, however, I can safely say that PSacramento, Tammy, Shelby and Vander and others who so graciously posted on this thread are on the same page in one key respect, and that is we do not buy into the Watchtower version of The Truth.
• 

  Nickolas

  Just curious, Shelly. Has anyone ever accused you of being a bit of a nut?

  And it's Nick, Shelly, not Nic.
• 

  Nickolas

  I don't charge a fee. No donation box or collection tray.

  Would you go away if I sent you some cash?