"Are you In the Truth?"

by Nickolas 202 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  myelaine

  dear AGuest...

  Is it wrong to ask you about your character if, as you say, you have been sent here to minister?...

  you are quick to correct what you believe to be errors in other peoples way of relating to Jesus Christ...I don't think it is too far a stretch to point out that the other members of the church can help you out in seeing your errors. I know that the bible says that we are being made over in the image of Christ. I also know that Jesus gave us a very important mission, to evangelize the nations. I question why you call yourself a good for nothing slave yet at the same time as you want us to believe you. and by that I don't mean "follow" you. you have stated that most of the church doesn't have the faith to hear Jesus speaking because if we did we would, in fact, hear him.(circular reasoning?) you have said yourself that people love to be told what to do what not to do and what to believe...don't you understand that some of those very people might and dare I say WILL just eat what you feed them?...you have also stated that your lord is not part of a trinity, do you think that some people would believe what you say simply because they don't hear your lord?...this bothers me for the simple fact that I don't believe that the one you love so much loves you. I have tried to discuss this privately with you before and you refuse to listen or discuss, is this humble?... the bible says that we are being made over in the image of Jesus Christ...and it also says:

  Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
  
  To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
  
  2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

  Fruitful Growth in the Faith

  
  5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, youwill be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
  10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (2 peter 1:1-11)

  AGuest...how many times have you told everyone that you are not nice, you are not kind, you are not etc., etc., ...these are characteristics that the Holy Spirit wishes to develop in a christian!!...after 15 years spreading your message and "hearing" your lord since you were a child why haven't these qualities been developed in you?...why do you continue to slag the churches, the clergy, and the congregants and the bible?...why is it all you say is get out of them because they are the harlot?...why is it that you wont "touch" the "unclean thing" yet you WILL go to the WTBTS memorial to show others how to do it?...that's ridiculous...

  AGuest I think that whoever you are hearing is subtle in leading you away from the Truth...and isolating you from the great crowd of witnesses that are there (have been built up since the BEGINNING of the church)as a safeguard...the fact that there is a huge body of believers that gather in these churches should indicate to any reasonable person that...the Holy Spirit is still adding to the church daily...

  I wonder who it is that makes you think that you are a good for nothing slave because it wouldn't be Jesus...He thought you were worth dying for and you are most precious in His sight.

  have you ever questioned why you think this way or haven't seen any progress in being made over by the Holy Spirit after all this time?...

  love michelle
• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Aguest's problem is that she is obviously Christlike but doesn't notice. We'll have to work long and hard on her and hope her patience wears thin in the process.....you know.... to bring her down to our level.
• 

  Nickolas

  Ok, I'm back for a short while.

  Oh..did I say "will"? ;^)

  Yes, you did. You said And yes, happiness depend on what happens. It is called the indefinite future tense. As in "Will you enjoy yourself at the dance?" and the response "it depends on what happens." I take my English grammar seriously. Call me a nitpicker.

  I also know that Jesus gave us a very important mission, to evangelize the nations

  And that is why atheists look upon Christians as the pains in the ass they are. We would be content to just live and let live, but you will not be content until everyone thinks the same way you do, because your holy book commands you to get into everyone's face. You are all the same in that regard, the worst of the bunch are the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons. Yes, yes, I know that Their flavour of Christianity is wrong and only Your flavour is right but to those of us who dare to think for ourselves it is all the same. Wake up.

  I have one question for you folks - Vander and Shelby and Tammy et al. I will assume that you were all born in North America, probably the USA. Would I be speaking to Christians (regardless of flavour) if you were all born in Iraq or Iran? Would you think the same way you do if not for the accidental location of your births? There is no greater delusion than self delusion.

  Now on to watch a little idiot box. I am an equal opportunity listener.
• 

  myelaine

  dear Vanderhoven...

  hello again!...

  AGuest readily admits to not possessing any of the christlike qualities in a bid to appear humble...if she does possess those qualities but says she doesn't to appear humble that's lying...let her examine for herself why she says the things she does instead of excusing her...

  I have spoken to AGuest privately and publicly and literally as soon as I showed any disagreement with her I was dismissed and called pathetic...I recall when I first went to speak to a pastor after I stopped studying with the JW's and we spoke about many things and disagreed about most things...I was not dismissed nor called pathetic...nor would I show that callous disregard for any that disagreed with me...not even AGuest.

  AGuest feels she is impervious to your words(my words, any mans words) because she has the Truth..." Again, then, dear Michelle, I am sorry but now I have to reject entirely that you even are who you are claiming to be... or sent for the purpose you are stating, as my spirit... and the Holy Spirit, with whom my spirit bears witness... direct me to do. " cf post 3613 http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/183338/12/is-jesus-a-god you see Vander her spirit trumps anything that has been believed on by millions and millions since the beginning of the church.

  it's a fact that the Holy Spirit will meet with a willing and open heart, she has shown there isn't anything we can do to "wear her down".

  love michelle
• 

  tec

  Wow... this thread got big fast. Now I've got to go get caught up :)
• 

  OUTLAW

  Hey Nickolas..

  No shrooms..LOL!!..

  And that is why atheists look upon Christians as the pains in the ass they are. We would be content to just live and let live,

  but you will not be content until everyone thinks the same way you do, because your holy book commands you to get into everyone's face......Nickolas

  I`m agnostic..But..Friends with Shelby..

  She has a much Different View,than many people who call themselves Christians..

  She doesn`t care if you or I become Christians..I`m a frigg`n Poor Candidate for Religion..LOL!!..

  Shelby is the kind of Christian I like..

  She`s not a Pain in the Ass..LOL!!..And..She`s a Sweetheart..

  MyElaine..

  Shelby follows no one but Jesus..Not the Bible,not a Religion,not Clergy..Just Jesus..

  Why do you find that concept so hard to understand,If your a Christian?..

  ..................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  tec

  And where is the written word equated to the flesh? That's a bit of a flyer, m'lady.

  You added this after ;)

  Fleshly - something you can see, hear, touch, smell, taste with your flesh.

  Spiritual - well, the things you discern through the spirit.

  Scripture, by definition, is the entire Bible, Tammy. One cannot say parts of the Bible are scripture and parts are not. It is all scripture, sometimes referred to as The Holy Scriptures, plural.

  You're a logical/rational man, Nick... so I assume that you know that just because someone slaps a label (holy scriptures) onto something does not make it so. What was decided upon to make up the Holy Scriptures was decided upon long after they were written. You did not answer my questions earlier. Such as what were the scriptures Paul referred to in Timothy? The letters he was writing and had not yet written? Or what the jews accepted as scripture at the time?

  I might counter your question with another one. Where does it say otherwise?

  I'm not following. How could the bible say that? It doesn't say every book in this bible is scripture either, and then go on to list which books are included. Man did that.

  However... the bible does say that the scribes have handled the word falsely. So... there you go.

  I think, however, I can safely say that PSacramento, Tammy, Shelby and Vander and others who so graciously posted on this thread are on the same page in one key respect, and that is we do not buy into the Watchtower version of The Truth.

  Yes, I think that is safe to say :)

  (on to page five now)

  Tammy
• 

  myelaine

  dear Tammy...

  you said: "However... the bible does say that the scribes have handled the word falsely. So... there you go."...

  how many scriptures in the OT says something about the false pen of the scribes and how many times in the NT does Jesus calls the scribes hypocrites?...how may times does the bible say that the scriptures are to be listened to, meditated upon, read, profitable, etc? and finally, how much of what the scribes wrote didn't actually make it into the bible because it was blatantly unprofitable etc?...

  love michelle
• 

  tec

  Dearest Tammy... the greatest of love and peace to you! My apologies, Tams, if my posts "overshadowed" - I did not mean for that to occur. I just jumped in... with my usual verbose self. You are always so... well, concise, and you know I wish I could be as well.

  The greatest love and peace to you as well. No need to apologize at all! There was no overshadowing (and I thought it was funny that as soon as I had posted that I had to go to work, your post was right behind it).

  Also, I like your verbose self. Its a part of you, it defines part of your personality, and that makes me smile.

  AGuest...how many times have you told everyone that you are not nice, you are not kind, you are not etc., etc., ...these are characteristics that the Holy Spirit wishes to develop in a christian!!...after 15 years spreading your message and "hearing" your lord since you were a child why haven't these qualities been developed in you?...why do you continue to slag the churches, the clergy, and the congregants and the bible?...why is it all you say is get out of them because they are the harlot?...why is it that you wont "touch" the "unclean thing" yet you WILL go to the WTBTS memorial to show others how to do it?...that's ridiculous...

  I believe Shelby sells herself far short on the kindness and mildness aspects of her character (which isn't lying, btw - it actually is humility). She does not yell or raise her voice (mildness). An unkind woman would not worry about hurting an employee, by telling him about his bad breath. An unkind woman would not offer to leave someone else's thread, out of concern that she has made herself unwelcome.

  What she is strong in (and without doubt, which may seem like a lack of humility) is her faith. And really, I don't understand what anyone else would expect of someone who hears the voice of our Lord? Should she consider denying Him? Is it lack of humility that she doesn't, or is it love and loyalty? Should she listen to someone else more than Him?

  I completely understand what she says about going to the Memorial. It isn't unclean for a clean person. She is not sharing in the WTS, but in Christ. If she was sharing in the WTS, well, then she wouldn't partake. And by partaking, at least someone else might see that such a thing is possible. Because if they never saw it or heard it, how could they think they might be allowed (even supposed) to do it?

  the fact that there is a huge body of believers that gather in these churches should indicate to any reasonable person that...the Holy Spirit is still adding to the church daily...

  What do numbers have to do with anything, and since when is the majority always right? Would anyone think the same as this (besides muslims) if there were more muslims than christians? If not for the holocaust, there might be as many jews as christians or muslims... would the numbers make them right?

  When the christian numbers start dropping off, is that going to make them wrong?

  Tammy
• 

  tec

  how many scriptures in the OT says something about the false pen of the scribes and how many times in the NT does Jesus calls the scribes hypocrites?...how may times does the bible say that the scriptures are to be listened to, meditated upon, read, profitable, etc? and finally, how much of what the scribes wrote didn't actually make it into the bible because it was blatantly unprofitable etc?...

  I don't know how many there are, Michelle. Does it matter, or does it matter if there is even one that says so? What about this one:

  "You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life."

  Tammy