If Genesis isn't taken literally, who's sin did Jesus die for?

by unshackled 106 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  AGuest

  your posts... are very, very long

  My apologies for that, dear LC (peace to you!). I have a lot "in" me and so can be quite verbose. I admit that... and, again, apologize.

  they rely on an apparently unshakable faith in your personal interpretation of the Bible as fact.

  Actually, that's inaccurate. I am sure most would love to have a "personal" interpretation of the Bible; I am not so... ummm... ambitious and self-absorbed, however. My faith is based on what my Lord tells me... as sometimes written in the Bible... sometimes written elsewhere. Truly, I could know any of this stuff were it not for him. I would most probably conclude what a lot of other folks conclude; at one time, I did.

  And the voices you say you hear, but that's another matter entirely.

  Well, most often it is one voice, my Lord's. On rare occasion, it has been the Father's, as well. But again, that's very rare. Just six times now... in close to 15 years.

  While it is 100% provable (let's say 99.99999999999999999%, just for argument's sake) that the statement "Death has always been a part of life on Earth" is accurate based on overwhelming physical evidence, your statement, on the other hand, is 0% (ok, let's call it 0.000000000000000000000001%, again for argument's sake) provable.

  Yes, I understand your position. But my Lord did say that faith need only be the size of a mustard seed... and thus, not a whole lot, at all, so...

  With respect, because you assert something to be true and you believe it with all your very being doesn't make it true.

  I absolutely agree. However, what I share isn't true because I believe it to be true; it is true because it comes FROM the Truth. But you don't have to take MY word for it. You can always ask him yourself. You only need, say, a mustard seed's amount of faith.

  Again, I bid you peace, dear one!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
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  Soldier77

  Good god... there goes the thread.

  Jesus (or whatever you call him, thats not the point really) came to earth to show man the way to the light, life and all that good stuff. To lead us (edit) to his father the true God Almighty. Not Jehovah of the OT. He's the jealous, self-serving, murderous and conviving one.

  God Almighty is a god of light, and what does darkness have with light? Absolutely nothing. Therefore, whoever this god Jehovah is, isn't a god of light.

  AGuest, I need to ask, where do you get calling Jesus/Yeshua?:

  JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH.

  I'm not looking for a "he told me himself" answer too. I'm looking for supporting references. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, although, I have a hard time taking you seriously. But I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt... but truth be told, it's difficult.
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  Lion Cask

  Your response to my observations of you is most generous and also gracious, AGuest. Thank you.

  I have never equated faith to a mustard seed. Uncertainty, yes. My doubt in the existence of any god of whatever name is profound but I cannot assert that there is not a god with the same degree of certainty you assert that there is. That is my mustard seed. I do not just know I am right. As much as the body of evidence supporting what I believe to be true is mountainous, as much as logic and reason tell me otherwise, I cannot but accept that I could be wrong and there is a god. Somewhere. Is it the god of the Bible? I might certainly hope not.

  I guess I would fall into the sixth category of Dawkins' scale, approaching but never reaching a seven for the mustard seed that stands in the way. From what I know from the dozens of your posts (lengthy as they are) I've gone back to read, you are in category one. That's ok with me. To each his or her own.

  Merry Christmas.

  LC
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  AGuest

  AGuest, I need to ask, where do you get calling Jesus/Yeshua?

  I've actually had the privilege of explaining this in-depth on the board, dear Soldier (again, peace to you!), so it's there. For the sake of brevity, however, let me say that the Hebrew yodh is not a "y"... but a "j"... pronounced like the sound of the English consonant "y"... and while the "eshua" part of the "Yeshua" is accurate, that version tends to leave out the sound made in the syllable prior (i.e., "yah")... as well as the mame of the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH (Psalm 68:4). It derives from the version "Y'shua" ("Ye Shua" but I don't know how to insert the shwan)... which resulted when some "decided" that God's name was either too sacred to utter... or man was too unclean/unworthy to utter it. Neither is true (well, not as to Israel that is so by means of Christ).

  Also, the English name "Jesus" is incorrect. It comes from the Latin "He Zeus" (which is why the Spanish pronouncement IS "he zeus")... and means "Je (or Jah) is Zeus". The Latin came from the Greek "Iesous"... which is what the Greeks named used when they replaced the name with that of their national God, Zeus (which means "the highest God").

  The correct ENGLISH transliteration of my Lord's name is "Joshua". Pronounced "Yahshua"... which is what the name sounds like when one says it very fast (i.e., "Jaheshua"). The "eh" tends to be silent in such cases.

  The correct pronunciation is "Yah eh shua"... spelled "Jah eShua"... and means "JAH is salvation/salvation of JAH/JAH who saves", etc.

  "Jesus" is not the One who came in the name of JAH (God). JAHESHUA is that One, dear one. And he is the chosen/anointed... or MISCHA... of JAH.

  I hope this helps and, again, I bid you peace!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA

  P.S. The same to you and yours, dear LC (peace to you!)!
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  Lion Cask

  hey, AGuest. Thanks for the elucidation. It would make an interesting trivia question in a Fundamentalist Christian board game, vis:

  For 10 points, what was the real name of Jesus?

  A. Huh? I thought it was, like, Jesus.

  B. Well, here in Puerto Rico we call him Heyzeus, mehn.

  C. Yeshua.
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  Mad Sweeney

  Soldier77, it's beginning to sound like you're buying into the gnosticism angle. It's a step in the right direction, IMO. Reading gnostic essays and scriptures helped me break free of the mental ties to the traditional Bible that western religions try to make in us. Have you had a chance to look at Wayism? wayism.net and wayism.com both have a lot of info. Enjoy your journey along the Way. Life's a lot more fun, joyful, and interesting outside the Borg.
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  ziddina

  The "creation" account - and many of the other stories in Genesis - aren't real, and it's highly probable that "Jesus" was an imaginary character, too...

  Zid