The Catholic Perspective (page 11)

sabastious

Did he? (serious question) Or did he give it to us to live in, take care of, rule over... but the house itself belongs to him. (like tenants and landlords)

Yeah that's why God put so much effort into creating us the way he did (capable of doing great things) to have some tenants...

Think of it this way:

I give you the best electric guitar on the market, it's everything you always dreamed up. It comes in beautiful gift packaging for added effect when opened...

After I solidify in your mind that I have given it to you freely, I send you home.

The next day I call you asking how the guitar is doing. I tell you that's doing fine and sounding great. Then you go on to tell me the rules of the guitar, that I am not allowed to service it myself, cannot let anyone else use it and bring it back to him once a month to restring it. Some might be ok with this arrangement, some may not. Then, if I tell you that I want to return the guitar because I want to get one of my own you chastise me and call me "unappreciative."

This is modern Christianity in a nutshell, imo.

-Sab

sabastious

To rule means to govern and to be responsible for all.

It is also what the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil represents.

-Sab

sabastious

I am heading to lunch, be back later.

-Sab

Mad Dawg

bohm said:

If i claimed the universe is a big turd laid by the cosmic pink unicorn, i think it would be entirely logical to dismiss that notion without having a fully established idea of how the universe actually came about.

I agree. And if someone wants to claim that the universe is a cosmic burp of nothingness, or that we evolved from rocks, it would be entirely logical to dismiss that notion without having a fully established idea of how the universe actually came about.

sabastious

I agree. And if someone wants to claim that the universe is a cosmic burp of nothingness, or that we evolved from rocks, it would be entirely logical to dismiss that notion without having a fully established idea of how the universe actually came about.

Not very many, if any, scientists officially claim that the universe came from nothing. Then again something had to come from nothing at some point correct (First Cause)? Why not the universe?

You are intentionally putting a negative spin on evolution and it's a bit intellectually dishonest. Keywords/phrases: "cosmic burp of nothingness" and "evolved from rocks."

-Sab

tec

Sab - So you are implying that God gave us the earth (I thought you had a scripture or quote or something, sorry)... not just to live on, take care of, etc... but also to own? What about the rest of the universe? The sun? The people? What belongs to God?

Even in Jesus' parables, people were made tenants and landlords of a land that still belonged to the king...and when that king sent his son (the heir to all his land and everything in it), they killed him, thinking that would mean they could keep that land for themselves.

Also... God didn't buy us the best guitar on the market. He made it... and he made all the materials that went into it... he even made us to play it and hear it. It would be like Him saying, "Here... take this guitar that I have made, learn it, take care of it... and make beautiful music for all to hear and appreciate." Now, if we start using that guitar to instead start bashing people over the head with, well... it should be taken back and given to someone else who will use it for what God wanted it used for. But if we're just playing badly, perhaps we should have more time to learn... if we are willing to try, that is. Still, that would be at the discretion of the one who owns the guitar...

Tammy

Mad Dawg

The terms I used are accurate. It is not my fault that, when the veneer is stripped away, what is left is patently absurd. Intellectually dishohest? I learned this from bohm and from reading Richturd Dawkins website.

sabastious

Also... God didn't buy us the best guitar on the market. He made it... and he made all the materials that went into it... he even made us to play it and hear it. It would be like Him saying, "Here... take this guitar that I have made, learn it, take care of it... and make beautiful music for all to hear and appreciate." Now, if we start using that guitar to instead start bashing people over the head with, well... it should be taken back and given to someone else who will use it for what God wanted it used for. But if we're just playing badly, perhaps we should have more time to learn... if we are willing to try, that is. Still, that would be at the discretion of the one who owns the guitar...

Maybe a guitar is not a good symbol.

So the debate is (and was in the Garden of Eden):

Which life is greater?

1. We live under the rule of our Creator. He chooses what is best for us, he chooses where we go and how we progress by either allowing a certain path or disallowing it. This includes, but is not limited to:

- A loving and eternal relationship with our Creator as our ultimate protector

- Loss of the possibility to be autonomous as a species, always dependent on an external source

2. We know what it is like to BE God taking the good with the bad. We attempt to tread the path to enlightenment, on our own, because that's what the path requires, no intervention.This includes, but is not limited to

- Pain and suffering by our own hands

- Trauma: being subjected to intense pain or suffering without a means of escape or means of sufficient retaliation

- The viable possibility of becoming like God and ultimately self reliant as a species

- The ability to truly become at peace with our existence, the ability to say and live a life that we made for ourselves (a luxury God has, no doubt at the cost of something similar to our existence in the past, present and future)

I'll take 2. We can't be infants forever, I believe God taught us that through his creations, including humans. Even if we chose number 1 for a time (which might be where the story of Adam and Eve came from) eventually we have to choose number 2 because number 1 is a fininte existence. Eventually number 1 will grow tiresome and we will seek adventure, seek something more.

Because that's what we are all about right? More.

We just gotta figure out how to progress without killing ourselves in the process.

-Sab

sabastious

The terms I used are accurate. It is not my fault that, when the veneer is stripped away, what is left is patently absurd. Intellectually dishohest? I learned this from bohm and from reading Richturd Dawkins website.

Ohhhh, well my bad then. You read the website.

Well that's the way I should refer to the big bang and evolution then from now on:

Big Bang: Cosmic burp of nothingness

Evolution: We came from rocks

We should put a 13 second course at Harvard University for these subjects. You could teach it!

-Sab

bohm

MD:

Evolution still doesnt not teach we evolved from rocks (perhaps you should write this down so you dont forget it again).
Do i understand you to mean we should dismiss the notion God created the universe untill we have good evidence?

The Catholic Perspective

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