The Catholic Perspective (page 9)

sabastious

I think 'ditto' sums up my feelings here nicely :) I love your passion for your beliefs, btw. I look forward to reading your project when it is finished. You are making me think a little deeper about the concept of inherited sin.

-Sab

tec

Do the following two statements contradict one another, or do I misunderstand?

I understand, and agree with, your point, but it is very idealistic. We all hope that ourselves and our peers will learn from experience, but from my experience, a lot of people just don't learn from their mistakes, what then? Someone has to define the boundries, you know?

I believe thateverything can be sorted out by paying close attention to the natural laws of Cause and Effect.

?

Ok, so where does Jesus fit into that assessment? Your conclusion in regards to Adam and Eve cannot rightly be applied to our lives. It's a benign explanation that affects nothing outside of the story, which isn't necessary a bad thing.

Oops. Sorry. Didn't finish.

Christ leads us back to life. As Adam (or the first of men, our ancestors, or even ourselves individually making the same choices) led/leads us to death... Christ leads us back to life. By listening and partaking of Him.

That said, you did judge me, not for my deeds but your position requires me to take some sort of action because of my sins (that we all have, according to you). What you said was not a jab, but a statement from a position you take and believe strongly: that we need forgiveness, we being you and I and everyone else.

Yes, you're right. It is what Christ taught, and his followers... and it is what my experiences have taught me as well. But if you were staying in another man's house, and hurt/harmed something that belonged to him... then you would apologize, ask for forgiveness, and do your best to make amends. Or you would more than likely be thrown out; though he might decide to overlook what you did, and forgive you anyway. That would be his choice though, and certainly not something you deserved.

(how was that for allegory ?)

Will I be judged because I never baptised myself in his name? Are my deeds washed away because I never officially told him that I give him my life?

That's up to him. See my above, dazzling, allegory :)

But He knows your heart... I suspect that He knows our hearts even better than we do, ourselves, much of the time. Sometimes we hide what we don't like (and also what we do like) about ourselves.

I believe that "accepting" your creator is not through words but through your actions as a human on this planet.

I believe this as well, and again, the heart tells.

Tammy

sabastious

Tec: Do the following two statements contradict one another, or do I misunderstand?
I understand, and agree with, your point, but it is very idealistic. We all hope that ourselves and our peers will learn from experience, but from my experience, a lot of people just don't learn from their mistakes, what then? Someone has to define the boundries, you know?
I believe thateverything can be sorted out by paying close attention to the natural laws of Cause and Effect.
?

Yes they do, and no they don't, which is a contradiction in itself!

Cause and Effect is never changing. When something happens over and over, when history continues to repeat itself in a negative way we have a responsiblity as a race to identity a "truth." This is what Law is created. Only humans can make laws for humans. We have the foundation of Logic, Reason and Cause and Effect before all our eyes, problem is many wish to ignore said law which has it's own Cause and Effect of it's own.

So everything can and will be sorted out by the law of Cause and Effect, but we cannot simply rely on it alone because we have to change things when our existence is threatened.

As humans we live in the midst of paradox. Almost everything we do contradicts something else, that's in part why being human is so damn hard.

-Sab

sabastious

Christ leads us back to life. As Adam (or the first of men, our ancestors, or even ourselves individually making the same choices) led/leads us to death... Christ leads us back to life. By listening and partaking of Him.

Again, a very idealistic approach. How does one listen and partake in Him? I'm sure you have an in depth answer, but you know that many will find fault with it because it will have fault, just as all human arguments have holes and flaws. As individuals we are pretty useless, that's why we need the conversations we have having RIGHT NOW. Without the collective assessment of things past, present and future we would wither away like a oak leaf in the autumn months.

-Sab

PSacramento

Will I be judged because I never baptised myself in his name? Are my deeds washed away because I never officially told him that I give him my life?

Have you passed judgment on anyone?

I don't have a relationship with Christ, he died 2,000 years ago.

AH well, that's just it though, he isn't dead.

I aint giving him my life because it is already owned by my creator, which may or may not be Jesus. When I look in the mirror I see a machine with tools capable of doing great things and not so great things. I believe that "accepting" your creator is not through words but through your actions as a human on this planet. The tools are there within our amazing minds, if you use them to the best of your ability you are accepting God's invitation to be human.

Well put.

sabastious

Yes, you're right. It is what Christ taught, and his followers... and it is what my experiences have taught me as well. But if you were staying in another man's house, and hurt/harmed something that belonged to him... then you would apologize, ask for forgiveness, and do your best to make amends. Or you would more than likely be thrown out; though he might decide to overlook what you did, and forgive you anyway. That would be his choice though, and certainly not something you deserved.

This is not Jesus' house, it's our house. We never broke anything in his house.

-Sab

sabastious

PSac: Have you passed judgment on anyone?

Hell yes I have judged others, to the best of my ability. I believe in judging others but in a benign way, one conducive to growth of the judger and the judged. (which is a hard trait to refine!). The difference I try to nurture with my judgements is that I am ready and willing to do a 180 on anything I say.

Easier said than done, I know.

-Sab

sabastious

AH well, that's just it though, he isn't dead.

-Sab

sabastious

But He knows your heart... I suspect that He knows our hearts even better than we do, ourselves, much of the time. Sometimes we hide what we don't like (and also what we do like) about ourselves.

I really hope that there is a benevolent force out there vastly greater than I that knows my intentions. That is an encouraging prospect because I make many misteps and would love to not be judged based on snapshots of my existence... the way many humans have judged my life.

-Sab

PSacramento

Hell yes I have judged others, to the best of my ability. I believe in judging others but in a benign way, one conducive to growth of the judger and the judged. (which is a hard trait to refine!). The difference I try to nurture with my judgements is that I am ready and willing to do a 180 on anything I say.

Easier said than done, I know.

As you judged others ( truly and in your heart) so shall you be judged.

The Catholic Perspective

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