Problem is who does the defining of what hurts us?
Well, I think we know the basics, and experience is a good teacher for the rest. I think it hurts us just as much when we hurt someone out of ignorance, also... just for the fact that someone was hurt because of our actions.
Ok you and I agree that Jesus didn't die for the sins of Adam, but do you believe that Jesus died because of the sins of Adam?
Ahh, ok, in a sense, yes (and I see a little clearer what you mean about the difference between literal and allegory)... because if no sin had been passed on/taught/inherited to Adam and Eve's children, then perhaps no one would ever have sinned? That point seems kinda moot to me though :)
Tammy, if you are going to make such statements please tell me how it isn't different from a pure allegorical standpoint :)
The story is about the first sin. If the "first sin" is allegorical then it changes a great deal for you and I. In the stream of all Christianity, many have made claim to doctrine hinged on Adam and Eve being literal (including JWs of course). This is not a whacky idea, it is quite accepted most Christian communities, no?
Allegory (simple version) - Adam and Eve represent mankind's disobedience and turning away from God, followed by being cast out... a sort of 'go and learn it all the hard way then'. It explains why we -their children- are where we are today, instead of with God in the Garden of Eden, with life. We inherit death from them, being born outside the Garden because of their act.
Literal (simple version) - Adam and Eve disobey, wanting to be like God, and are cast out - where it is harder. Their children (us) are born outside the Garden of Eden, so their children die as they do. We inherit death from them for the same reasons as above.
In an allegory, you use symbols to represent real things, right? So the ultimate meaning should be the same, shouldn't it? That does not mean that a person finds the real meaning, mind you... regardless of whether it is taken as literal or allegory.
Also... I get that you are mainly interested in debating this with someone who believes that doctrine hinges on Adam/Eve being literal and Christ as ransom sacrifice for their sins. But I don't believe that... so perhaps I am a wasted audience.
Tammy, I am extremely remorseful for those things. Every time I do something unhelpful to society by neglecting something or hurting someone I regognize it and make a serious attempt to remedy it.
See, now here I am going to apologize to you. I did not mean to single you out or make you feel bad. I just meant to point out that we ALL have done wrongdoing. But I would not condemn or judge or even think badly of you (or anyone else) for it... that would make me a hypocrite. If you didn't care that you had ever hurt anyone, then I might be worried about you ;) But you obviously do care, and I knew that about you even before you wrote your answer above.
As for the nature of your relationship with Christ... that is between you and Him. I have no right nor ability to cast judgment on it or you. It has little do what I can to show kindness, compassion and love to you... because as someone I love once said to me, this brings glory to God.
I did accept him by immitatinghis actions in the gospel.
This is an example of deeds, Sab. So your integrity (as you said above) is manifesting itself in imitation of His actions. :)
Again Tammy, I do not wish to single you out or attack you. I have deep respect for you and your beliefs but as you can see, I have some strong ones of my own :)
I think 'ditto' sums up my feelings here nicely :) I love your passion for your beliefs, btw. I look forward to reading your project when it is finished. You are making me think a little deeper about the concept of inherited sin.
Tammy
