Being honest with yourself, could you have reasonably adjusted your attitude and continued on as a JW?

by miseryloveselders 84 Replies latest jw friends

  • inbetween
    inbetween

    MLE: I hear you, really...

    our congo seems very similar to yours, we also have a lot of fun, and, besides some selfrighteous dicks, mostly laid back, easy going people, some even borderline free thinkers (that means something in JW world)

    atm, yes, I have to continue as a JW, and hidden apostate, if I walk away now, I would damage my family no doubt.

    Basically all my freinds are JW, and even if their are billions of people in this world, with a certain age, you just dont make new friends that easy anymore...

    on the other hand, it tortures me to listen to nonsense, to submit to theocratic order (oh I "love" that phrase), to go in service etc..

    For me right now, going and staying, both has no happy end, its a loose/loose situation actually..

    While those who leave cold turkey are to be respected, I also think, every situation is different. In the end, we all choose a path, that seems to be best for us anyway...

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    MLE,

    I was thinking about this post while sitting through a meeting last night. I like many of the people there and have known most for a pretty long time. So, they aren't the problem. But, everytime I'm at the meetings I just get more and more annoyed. Sometimes, I can distract myself but some of the comments last night were so over the top I found myself in a terrible, angry mood by the time we left. It took a few beers before my mood improved.

    I guess I continue being a JW on the surface, but I can't believe in their theology any more than I can believe in the Tooth Fairy. Nothing short of God's voice would convince me that they are "the earthly portion of Jehovah's organization". Yet, that is the premise of the entire religion. Without Jesus choosing them in 1919, there is no authority. And if they presented themselves as just another religion, didn't micromange their members, didn't split apart families and friends, then I wouldn't care. But, there's really no moderate position, is there? You're either for us or your against us. Maybe if the WTS could reasonably adjust their attitude towards those that disagree with them, they'd be able to retain more members.

    If I didn't think it would create huge problems within my immediate family, I would never go back. However I'm pretty certain that it would destroy my marriage and cause more pain than its worth. And the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the DF'ing/DA'ing policy is a deliberate ploy to make it difficult for people to leave. If they're so sure they have "the Truth" then why isn't debate or any dissent allowed? Why must they attempt to slander and hurt those that disagree? Why not just let them leave without sanction?

    So, at least for me, there's no amount of attitude adjustment I could make that would actually make me happy to be affiliated with the WTS.

  • Franklin Massey
    Franklin Massey

    Good topic Miz.

    Welcome Bafh!

    Miz, you said and not being able to express all of my views with fellow JWs for fear of ostracism. To put it simply, I'm not a fan of the WT's micromanagement as they go beyond whats written. At the same time, I have to admit that there's plenty of institutions everyday people are a part of, that during their involvement with, they cannot speak their mind too openly. Such as school, or your place of employment. Why should we expect any more with any religious institution?

    Not being able to have open discussion is one of my biggest problems. True, many institutions have guidelines in which to follow. The WT takes it to a whole different level, though. It has positioned itself as a High Control Group.

    In a classroom, the student is allowed to ask questions of the teacher. Often times, this gets the whole class engaged in a meaningful discussion. This is not allowed at a congregation meeting. The instructions for how to conduct a meeting and how to participate limit any real thinking. This trickles down into private inter-JW conversations. JWs learn what to say and what not to say, whether we believe it or not. We parrot the "correct" responses and typical language as we have memorized (read: been indoctrinated by) them. If someone unfamiliar with JW teaching heard us speaking about doctrine it would sound like incomprehensible jargon. Asked to explain doctrine free of jargon (i.e., explain it in your own words) and the average JW gets stumped. Or, try saying to a fellow JW that you see some convincing arguments for evolution and watch the jaws drop and let the squirming begin. Non WT thought is not to even be considered.

    At a place of employment, employers appreciate feedback about how to improve operations, be more efficient, and correct costly mistakes. Most businesses hold monthly meetings where employees have a chance to discuss concerns. In the congregation, there is no such forum. Question doctrinal error = apostasy. Critique a poorly functioning servant body = working against Christ's appointed representatives. Suggest a more effective method of preaching the good news = going against the Society's direction. It doesn't matter if you are right. In these cases, if you have anything non-flattering to say about the Org, you're wrong by WT default.

    All I would like is the opportunity to take some of the issues that perplex me and discuss them openly with the people I love the most. I'm not free under the WT umbrella to do that. I'm positive that I have found truth beyond the walls of the WT. But if I think it, I'm guilty of thought crime. If I speak it, I'm guilty of apostasy. I risk being cut off. There is not "agree to disagree" option. There is no "I respect your opinion-you respect mine-let's coexist peacefully" option. I'm being made an enemy simply because of a few disagreements. The power that the WT holds over the minds of its followers is frightening.

    So, to answer your question, I can never go back to robot mode. To adjust my attitude would be to turn my back on real truth. So for now, I'll slug through it.

  • Cadellin
    Cadellin

    First, welcom Bafh and please tell us about yourself (when you're ready)

    This is such a good thread because so many of us have wrestled with these same issues as MLE raised. Many of us, including myself, are caught in difficult family situations and are struggling to negotiate how to be true to our consciences while not losing their marriage or their family. And yes, MLE, I've looked around our hall after a meeting and seen the camaraderie and thought, I could be part of this so easily--I know all the right things to say and movements to make. I'm not DF'd or DA'd btw, I'm inactive. That's the compromise I chose. My family can still talk to me, can handle this limited amount of "shame and sorrow" but still keep their heads up because I go to the occasional meeting and don't rock the boat. My husband is an elder who has told his body that he's "working with me." I show up often enough for them to believe it and leave me (us) alone. I keep my mouth closed.

    My rationale is that I can stand to sit through a meeting here and there (yes, I do have to resist the urge to lob my head several times against the wall when blatant stupidity is spoken) but my conscience will absolutely not allow me to knock on someone's door and tell them something I know is wrong or a lie. I won't do it. That's where I draw the line.

    But to return to full activity? No, uh-uh, nada, no chance, no way, no how. Not unless there is a dramatic about-turn in doctrine so that what is taught conforms to rational evidence (and I mean historical, biblical and natural), not unless women are accorded full equality, not unless honesty is embraced and admissions of error are made. And I dont see that happening anytime soon. Moreover, I have to applaud and echo Franklin Massey's observation about the chilling information control. That would have to be changed--open discussion without fear of judgment or discipline would need to be embraced. Thought control would need to be eliminated. Oh wait, I guess they wouldn't be a cult anymore! If all that happens, then, yeah, maybe I could adjust my attitude...

  • Roski
    Roski

    I was raised in 'the truth' so my whole life revolved around it. My kids and I put up with a LOT of nonsense/nastiness/ignorance when I separated from my elder husband - but I hung in there. I have lived and worked in Asian countries noted for corruption and even though I didn't like it and often felt uncomfortable in dealing with stuff their way, I adjusted my thinking in order to live there - it is their system after all. But why should I adjust my thinking towards an organisation that claims to be chosen by God and his representative here on earth? Isn't the responsibility to be honest/ethical theirs?

  • transhuman68
    transhuman68

    I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy- but if I had to go back to the Kingdumb Hall I would opt for the lobotomy.

  • Scully
    Scully

    There are some things you can't "unsee"... like walking in on your parents or grandparents doing the horizontal mambo.

    There are some things you can't "unknow"... like that Santa Claus isn't real, or that your spouse cheated on you or that your best friend betrayed you.

    That's how it was for me and the WTS. Once the information was known, I couldn't "unknow" it - I couldn't chalk it up to "imperfection" or "personality clashes" when it was perfectly clear that the WTS deliberately misrepresented facts with the sole purpose of keeping their membership and, more importantly, their cash flow intact.

    Being fairly young when I discovered this, it was impossible to justify spending any more of my life devoted to this "snare and a racket", much less justify staying in and exposing my children to that falsehood.

  • cskyjw.sun
    cskyjw.sun

    hi miseryloveselders

    i see your true self from this particular post(the pros outweigh the cons).dispite all the negativites there might still be some plausible reasons why people remain in this organisation.i am a mentally depressed person.it seems that "my achievements" in the organisation make me feel worthwhile which otherwise make me feel that i am totally worthless.

  • kimbo
    kimbo

    I can`t go where I am not welcome.

    I was always treated badly judged as week etc.

    The Governing Body is the Evil Slave .

    They twist the truth to support there lies.

    Disfellowship rules were changed to get rid of Ray Franz.

    That is what they do change the rules when it suits themselves .

    [new light]{loose court case ,sex abuse of children,pay tax free watchtower & awake}

    They can`t control the internet.

  • shamus100
    shamus100

    NO NO NO!!!!!

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit