BOTR, I dig your posts and all, but what does that have to do with abusive women? If there was a post about abusive men and I came on and posted how great it was to be a shriner, or hanging @ a Mens drum circle...
Abusive Women and manipulation
by Lady Lee 62 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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jgnat
Lady Lee, so lovely to read an article from you again. I reflected on my own (narcicisstic, manipulative) mother as I read the characteristics and I am grateful that she did not display them all. Nevertheless, I am happiest when I limit my contact with her and I am glad she lives in a different city. Her unintended gift is that I am allergic to manipulation and run away when I see it. The Kingdom Hall's "charms" have no hold on me. "We miss Jgnat", they tell my husband at the meetings. "Sure, they do honey" I reply, "Invite them over for dinner."
I thought it was so healthy of you to write down your experience in detail and then pare it down to it's essentials. It is so rare to have the chance to confront an abuser and lay out clearly for them what they have done. Bravo. You don't say that revelation led to confession or repentance. I doubt it. But that woman will have to live with the clarity of her abuse from now on, because of your bravery.
About breaking away from the pattern. My psychologist friend has convinced me that people will repeat the pattern as many times they need to until they learn the lesson. For instance, a woman marries a passive man in an attempt to escape the memories of her dominant, controlling father, only to find out that extreme passiveness is it's own form of control.
I wonder now if the biggest error that pattern victims make is to stay too long. Anyone can be fooled...for a while. Is it possible the healthier person stops the abuse sooner, without self-blame?
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jgnat
ziddana, your reflections got me thinking of a frustrated, dominant woman who used to attend my church. I never got to know her that well, but it seemed that she had an unhealthy inflluence over the congregation. I often wondered if her problem was lack of legitimate power, as my denomination does not recognize women as elders.
Since her family left the congregation, though poorer, is growing in confidence.
I am convinced my instincts about her were dead-on.
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ziddina
Interesting, Jgnat...
[Did I ever tell you? When I first saw your on-board "handle", I thought it stood for "Juggernaut"... ]
And Lady Lee, Avishai - I've had an epiphany...
I begin to see the validity of the article - oh, but just to let you know, I don't think I was "excusing" abusive women; just trying to explain that the situation is more complicated than it might seem... That the particular set of abusive behaviors that have been attributed more to women is quite probably based in powerlessness rather than in gender...
But I didn't mean to EXCUSE such behavior.
My own mother was VERY sneaky and manipulative and abusive, but I didn't see HER abusiveness for a very long time, because my father's physical violence and bullying/battering of me was so overwhelming...
Which brings me to ANOTHER form of abusive female - and right at the outset, let me state that this particular form of abusive behavior exists among men, too...
The "NICE" female....
The one who smiles in your face and stabs you in the back..
The one who won't hear a word that you say [practically ignores it, treats your VALID concerns as of no significance or consequence whatsoever], to the point that you want to - or might be - screaming in frustration, while she smiles like a Madonna, totally blowing off ANYTHING you say and making YOU look like the "bad person" in the process...
The one who plays the poor little martyr... [which makes YOU the "bad guy"...]
The one who refuses to address your real concerns and attributes them to some "mistaken idea" that you have, while positioning herself in the conversation to be the "polite" one... [which makes YOU the "crazy" or "mental" or "stupid" one...]
Of course, all of these variations on the innately dishonest "Nice" woman are lying through their teeth - and are so totally dishonest with themselves that the lie starts out there...
I've always said, "Liars start out by lying to themselves"...
This kind of abuse is PARTICULARLY difficult to pin down because most other people perceive the "nice" person's mask, instead of the manipulative, dishonest personality underneath. Trying to get this person to see reality - truth - facts - is like trying to nail sand - not jello - to a tree...
But, if anyone's interested, I will add more quotes from that book - cause I still haven't had time to look up a possible on-line link. The book is rather old, but I feel its comments are still valid, rather like Robert Townsend's "UP the Organization" which was published [I think] in the late 60's, but has many pertinent points that apply today...
Zid
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ziddina
O-K, Avishai, I'm sorry for posting such a short, inadequate response to your posts, but...
YOur age:
I'm a child of the 1970's. I'm 41
I'm a child of the 50's, but violence existed to a certain extent among women at that time, too... It seemed to really accelerate in the 80's and 90's, however. It would be interesting to compare female murderers' rates from the 50's to the 80's, 90's, and current... With allowance made for undiscovered murders in the 50's, since the perception that women "didn't kill" was much more prevalent then.
My point about where feminism went wrong [sorry, I'll get off this soapbox in a minute...] was that it has somehow morphed the equal rights movement into the idea that women are allowed to be as violent and "death-oriented" as men...
I agree with what I read of your points - I don't like arbitrary female violence - hell, I don't like violence period, but especially when I see women mimicking men by using violence in social situations.
Having said that, I will say that I personally am far more violent than the "average" female, because of the physical abuse I suffered at my father's hands - er, more accurately, boots - as a child.
I do feel that women need to use violence if necessary in life-threatening situations, however... [men too, obviously...] But here again, it depends on how a person views a situation as "life-threatening"...
Zid
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AGuest
May you all have peace. Another form of abuse that many (men and women) use.... is blaming others... their parents, spouses, children, neighbors, employers... and even people they've never met (say, on a public discussion board)... for their own frustrations. Someone doesn't listen to you or like what you say or believe? Unless you're a child, really, so what? Do you really NEED them to? If so, why? If you don't feel heard, it could be that no one (or the one(s) you want to) is listening. It could also be that they DISAGREE... and YOU are the one not listening to that. Because YOU don't want to hear them... or what THEY'RE saying.
Talk about your dishonest communcations...
Peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA, keepin' it real, in spite of what has apparently turned into a covert game...
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OUTLAW
"Do as I say..Or..You will Pay Dearly". .
And..Remember..
"Mommy Loves you! "..
Why does the WBT$ attract so many F*cked up People?..
I`ve never seen so many,in one group..
The WBT$ is a Social Club for Psychotic Parents..
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...OUTLAW -
jgnat
Hah, Outlaw. Hubby claims he's never met so many clinically mentally ill since he met me. I tell him they were all around all the time; he just didn't know it. I have a way of flushing them out.
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OUTLAW
Hey Jgnat!..
You are an Oasis in a land,Barren of any Intelligent Thought.."Watchtower World"..
There is no way he could spend time around you and not notice the difference..
Your Hubby is a Lucky Man..
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...OUTLAW -
wasblind
Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Outlaw !!!!!!!!!!!
BTTT
