Spade, help me out please...

by elderelite 53 Replies latest members private

  • WontLeave
    WontLeave

    I know most of the people here are well aware of the unspoken undercurrents of the Society's iron-fist rulership of the congregation, but most JWs aren't. The people who are still seen as "friends" can pretty much go about their lives and nobody says anything to them. Stand out as different and not be among the clique of the congregation popular and one will be crucified for they way they tie their shoes. Another problem is, if you are in the clique, you'd never believe that to be the case because, in your mind, you have first-hand experience that doesn't happen.

    Imagine trying to explain the witch hunts performed by elders to a child of an elder. We all know they get away with murder. We all know elders' daughters can come up pregnant, elders' sons can do drugs with virtual impunity, they can have drunken parties and have sex 'til the cows come home as long as they don't make too much of a public spectacle of it. Daddy will protect them and coach them through JCs, so they come out with a slap on the wrist.

    Then, there are those who every time the elders talk to them, it's just to try to find something to find fault with. Every word must be carefully chosen and every action is being scrutinized for something to accuse. Some folks here have to guard against their own family, as they're little gestapo, looking for brownie points by running to the elders with any juicy tidbit they can glean, extrapolate, or even assume from every phone conversation, thing heard 'through the grapevine', or they just "get a feeling" of.

    To someone who's been treated well, you guys sound like raving lunatics; bitter over having been caught for whatever serious wrongdoing you refuse to admit. If a JW feels held close, like in a mother hen's protective wings, airing your complaints to them in angry, insistent, accusatory language will just sound like a conspiracy theorist demanding attention.

    Spade obviously hasn't had an event occur that forces a recognition of some dark, ugly, sinister side to being a JW. Who knows, maybe she's in a congregation where the elders are actually spiritually mature men who truly love the flock and conscientiously take their position seriously 'as those who will render an account', rather than carte blanche to attack those they personally don't like or an excuse to be the tin-horn tyrant sadists they secretly are.

    If things were fair and equitable, we wouldn't need God's Kingdom to "set matters straight". Attacking Spade for her adherence to a group that has obviously been pretty good to her so far will only alienate her and make her feel really uncomfortable to speak of her experience and change of heart, should something terrible happen to her. Then, even though she is very aware of forums and groups like this, she'll feel alone, like victimized JWs did in years past.

    Add to that, the people who really did get DFed for blatantly unscriptural behavior, then feign innocence and spin events in their favor (even worse than the Society ever has). Just like nearly everyone you talk to in prison is innocent (from what I hear), everyone in this forum may not be as blameless as they try to sound. The angrier, more unloving, and radical you all sound, the more likely she and others are going to assume the people here are just a bunch of bitter ex-JWs with an axe to grind, looking for anyone who will listen and side with them.

    The reason I stopped going to the meetings regularly, is that they made me angry. Talking to JWs at the Hall just made me disappointed with the entire group of what I felt to be ignoramuses, idiots, and brainwashed sycophants. I take a break from the forums and 'apostate' sites often too, for the same reason. Venting is good if it gets it out of your system, but sometimes sites like this are more like stoking a fire and get our anger raging again after it had died down. Christians need to have and demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit and, as I recall, hate, sadness, tension, rage, lashing out, etc. weren't on the list. As much as I believe I belong in God's house (which I feel the Kingdom Hall is), being around the people who have taken it over and hanging out in anti-JW forums sometimes causes me to feel and exhibit unspiritual emotions.

    My point is, the ranting and raving and attacking someone who clings to JW teachings is only making ex-JWs fit the description we've all heard from the Society about what type of people 'apostates' are. You're also demonstrating to her that ex-JWs were probably thrown out for good reason, seeing as they don't exhibit very Christian behavior, which is exactly what the JWs use as a scare tactic. You're proving them right and to someone on the fence, that just reinforces the JW propaganda of "whom shall we go away to?", as they play proxy-Christ. You guys really are sounding a lot like the JW caricature of apostates and you're leaving someone who obviously isn't a JW robot (since she's coming to anti-JW sites) with nowhere to go, if and when things go badly for her.

  • Murray Smith
    Murray Smith

    Aw come on WontLeave! . . . that's a very sanitised view of Spade's involvement here . . . There have been a good number of very honest and heartfelt accounts written with plenty of humility and appeal . . . providing personal details of very real experiences common to a great many here . . . if it sounds bitter and vitriolic to you then you might well lack insight . . . I would suggest with the treatment handed out to many . . . they have every right to feel that way.

    Spade on the other hand often callously dismisses such accounts as exaggerated and wimpish . . . all but calling everyone who has a counter view a liar . . . If spade sets the tone in this way . . . what do you expect. Your asking poorly treated people to respond faultlessly . . . en masse . . . for the sake of someone who cares little for the distasteful experiences of others.

    If an individual digs there own hole methodically and deliberately in this way . . . It's hard to take a cry like "she might need help one day" seriously.

  • Murray Smith
    Murray Smith

    Added to that . . . . who has ever claimed that this is a "Christian" website . . . all persuasions and beliefs are free to express themselves here . . . something Spade has been delighted to do at will . . . To refer to all posters as "you guys" as if being representative of something is a symptom of WT induced paranoia . . . sorry if not everyone makes allowance for that!

  • DanaBug
    DanaBug
    Imagine trying to explain the witch hunts performed by elders to a child of an elder. We all know they get away with murder. We all know elders' daughters can come up pregnant, elders' sons can do drugs with virtual impunity, they can have drunken parties and have sex 'til the cows come home as long as they don't make too much of a public spectacle of it. Daddy will protect them and coach them through JCs, so they come out with a slap on the wrist.

    That's a generalization. I was an elder's daughter. My sis and I were turned in by him. He got deleted too.

    Attacking Spade for her adherence to a group that has obviously been pretty good to her so far will only alienate her and make her feel really uncomfortable to speak of her experience and change of heart, should something terrible happen to her. Then, even though she is very aware of forums and groups like this, she'll feel alone, like victimized JWs did in years past.

    Won'tLeave, there was another poster who acted similarly on this board and came back, everyone welcomed that person with open arms. What makes you think the same wouldn't be true for Alice/Spade?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Wontleave..

    You would do well to do a minimum amout of research on Spade/AliceInWonderLand/Confearacy..

    Before you tell us how things are with a lunatic..

    Who can`t understand why avatars concerning Witchcraft are not acceptable to your average JW..

    Or any other number of things Spade/Alice doesn`t understand about JW`s..

    Alice doesn`t understand JW`s or Watchtower World,because Alice has never been a JW..

    ............................ ...OUTLAW

  • Murray Smith
    Murray Smith

    maybe she's in a congregation where the elders are actually spiritually mature men who truly love the flock and conscientiously take their position seriously 'as those who will render an account', rather than carte blanche to attack those they personally don't like or an excuse to be the tin-horn tyrant sadists they secretly are.

    I spent 23 years a witness in 11 different congregations . . . . with the exception of a few, largely discreet individuals, I never encountered a BOE's that even remotely fits that discription

    Just like nearly everyone you talk to in prison is innocent (from what I hear), everyone in this forum may not be as blameless as they try to sound.

    The comparison is loose, specious, speculative, assumptive, a sweeping generalisation and downright insulting to all but the tiny minority to whom it MIGHT apply.

  • GOrwell
    GOrwell

    @WontLeave - "proxy-christ" LOL.. I love it.. that is my new favourite phrase..

  • Morbidzbaby
    Morbidzbaby

    Wow... Quite the experience, EE... Please know that you're in my thoughts. Your situation cannot be easy to deal with. I myself lost everything (literally...right down to my children, my belongings, and my home...) for leaving the WTBS.

    Quite a few of us here have been dealt injustices by JW's. To have someone come along who knows pretty much nothing of these injustices or just chooses to stay blind to them, and then point fingers and say we're lying or nit-picking...well, it's ridiculous. And such a person's opinion means nothing when they have zero experiences to back up their claims.

  • Mr. Falcon
    Mr. Falcon

    Spade = Johnny the Bethelite.

    or maybe that girl with explosive diaherria. Can't remember her name.

    so sayeth Falcon.

  • elderelite
    elderelite

    @morbid, i am so sorry to hear your experiance but its sadly all to common. And thats the point... Its what ANY of us who want to leave face. The wt opens the doors and says "leave and be well... No dfing, no shunning", i wonder how many leave.... Its clearly what they r afraid of and what makes this a cult, without question or hesitation

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