Are atheists less imaginative about the unknown? (page 10)

sabastious

Yep...this is how I felt as a child trying to wrap my around my parents saying "well, Jehovah has always existed..."

I had the exact same experience. My parents would get frustrated that I would not let it go.

-Sab

sabastious

I wonder if it tips the scales to consider that we humans are intelligent (in theory) and that we are part of the universe?

So you are saying that the universe is intelligent because we are intelligent?

-Sab

VampireDCLXV

So you are saying that the universe is intelligent because we are intelligent?

Umm... the other way 'round... that we are intelligent as a by-product of the universe's intelligence. The universe is supposed the first cause, not us. (Maybe it is vice versa?)

Just my wacky thinking... or is it from a friend of mine?

V665 V665

lifeisgood

Man, what a bunch of crackheads.

I never said that the First Cause created humans, I said that the First Cause created the material universe.

The material universe is not the ultimate First Cause, it is the product of the First Cause.

VampireDCLXV

Man, what a bunch of crackheads.

I never said that the First Cause created humans, I said that the First Cause created the material universe.

Dood... did you read the end of unshackeled's post #341? We're just amusing ourselves here...

Edit: Sagan says it better...

"In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe out of nothing. But this is mere temporizing. If we wish courageously to pursue the question, we must, of course ask next where God comes from? And if we decide this to be unanswerable, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed?"

Come to think of it, that is kind of mentally lazy in a way...

V665 V665

lifeisgood

I guess you crackheads never read the first law of thermodynamics.

Neither energy nor matter can come from nothing. They can, however, come from one another. Matter can be used to create energy, energy can be used to create matter. Einstein had some thoughts on this. Put down the gameboy and do a bit of reading. I will wait. < humming jeopardy theme hmmm hmmm hmm hm hmmm hmm hm hmmm hmm hmm hm hmmmmmmmm hmmm hmmm hm hm>

Okay, back with us?

We live in a universe of matter, which could only have come from a universe of energy. The universe of energy cannot have come from 'nothing', so it had to always exist. I know, I know, some crackhead is going to say "noo, it could have come from a universe of matter". Okay, so take your pick. You have to start with one or the other. You cannot start with nothing.

Something caused the universe of matter to be created from the universe of energy. I call that something the First Cause. I have no idea what it is. But, it is not the god of war (Jehovah) of the Bible.

CoonDawg

I consider myself an atheist and I feel I give plenty of time to being imaginative. In order to be creative at all, one must indulge in thinking that may be considered "left field" by the establishment. Being imaginative is not exclusive to atheists or theists.

I will say that I don't see why atheists have to disprove the concept of "god." Theists are the ones making the claim, the burden of proof is theirs.

NomadSoul

I agree with you CoonDawg. Well said.

And to contribute to the "crackheads", LOL Have you seen the episode of Futurama where the Doc, Bender, and Fry get stuck in the time machine that could only go into the future. They accidently keep going more and more in the future till they get to the point of no return. So they put it on fast foward and get to see the end of the universe. All of the sudden another big band occurs and creates and identical universal. They miss their time landing so they go around one more time. Hilarious!

Oh that's one of my favorites episodes.

sabastious

The material universe is not the ultimate First Cause, it is the product of the First Cause.

Your assertion is on the same level as the assertion of the universe being the First Cause. We just don't know at this point. We have to speculate in many areas, so abolsute speach just clouds the discussion.

-Sab

sabastious

I will say that I don't see why atheists have to disprove the concept of "god." Theists are the ones making the claim, the burden of proof is theirs.

"God doesn't exist" is just a much a claim than "God does exist"

Now proving that God X doesn't exist is a much more progressive debate.

-Sab

Are atheists less imaginative about the unknown?

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