Atheists believe in nonsense too.

by NomadSoul 75 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  tec

  Individual atheists may do evil things but they don't do evil things in the name of atheism.

  Give it time. I'm being glib, but not being glib at the same time;) Atheists in great numbers have not been around long. If a country in great power was primarily atheist, and another country that was religious had something those in charge wanted... then we might have a war on religion instead of a war on terrorism. Some might think it is the lesser of two evils to destroy religion completely (by the growing atheist population), rather than allow all the atrocities done in the name of religion to continue - even if there will be casualties of that war. Would all atheists feel the same? No. Would they be drowned out by the angrier voices? If history has anything to say about it, then probably. You can't say that there aren't atheists out there who don't wish that religion could just be wiped off the face of the planet, along with believers. (just listen to some videos and read some comments) Starting of course with the extremists, but movements catch on and, well, before you know it you're in a place unrecognizable from where you began.

  If people want to destroy then it isn't going to matter what their religion or their non-religion is. Unfortunately, many people want to destroy, dominate, whatever, to get the things that they want. Sometimes the intentions are good, but those get lost on the way, as well.

  Just speculation on my behalf though.

  What I would like to point out is that the Christians making wars and dominating other cultures, etc... are NOT following Christ. He didn't want his followers to fight wars in his name.

  How can a "true" Christian kill in Christ's name, and do the opposite of what He commanded?

  Tammy
• 

  PublishingCult

  You can't say that there aren't atheists out there who don't wish that religion could just be wiped off the face of the planet, along with believers. (just listen to some videos and read some comments) Starting of course with the extremists, but movements catch on and, well, before you know it you're in a place unrecognizable from where you began.

  I know not of which videos and statements you refer to, and I would appreciate a link or reference so that I might review the source of your assertion with an open mind, if it please you.

  I suppose I would be a hypocrite to say that I wouldn't drive a stake through the heart of a believer who attempted to do harm to me or mine because I am not a believer; wipe them off the face of the earth as you say. We call this self-defense. I would do my utmost, on the same hand, to intercept and stay the atheist hand plunging a stake into the heart of another for choosing to have a religion. Of course atheists yearn to see the day religion and its irrational belief systems are eradicated, but to whom do you refer specifically when you say that "they" also wish to see believers themselves wiped off the face of the planet? How extreme! Logic and rational thought would seem to dictate that once the irrational belief system and its use as justification for atrocity has been properly relegated to myth, legend, and superstition, and placed on the shelf along side of The Iliad, there would be no need to take a life in addition to enlightening the individual. I would think you must be referring to the religious who viciously and wantonly use their irrational beliefs in a deity to justify hatred and murder and refuse to give way to sanity like some rabid dog diseased of body and mind bent on harming even its loving master. That kind of dog surely must suffer the fate of Old Yeller. We simply cannot have rabid unreasonable dogs killing the innocent in the name of their religion, now can we?
  
  We have all come out of the organization of JW's thinking we know full-well what constitutes a "true Christian", and how we conveniently and piously step to one side and disassociate ourselves from those kinds of false Christians. But, I am afraid that all the shunning of such conduct, the talk of love and forgiveness, of peace and heaven, and hope and redemption and charity and do unto others cannot cover even an ounce of the sin, evil, bloodshed, genocide, rape, child molestation, human sacrifice, misogyny, and corruption the religion and its morality is actually, factually, and historically based upon which goes way way way back to its inception.

  But we are also getting into matters of State. We understand, because we are not children, that the State will use whatever means necessary to control the masses. Heads of state are historically, all of them, eugenicists, and they will use any pretext to depopulate and dominate.
• 

  HintOfLime

  Persaonlly, I avoid "believing in" things as much as possible.

  The one thing I do beleive.. is that if we put our minds to it, we humans can make a better world.

  If that is nonsense... then no 'god' can save us, and we are simply doomed. At best, all that any god can do is perpetually clean our litter box.

  - Lime
• 

  tec

  I would think you must be referring to the religious who viciously and wantonly use their irrational beliefs in a deity to justify hatred and murder and refuse to give way to sanity like some rabid dog diseased of body and mind bent on harming even its loving master.

  I am referring to that. Their (the religious who kill) nature would make a war against them justified. I just also consider that this would spread out and touch those whose beliefs aren't as violent, but definitely outspoken... and finally to anyone with belief at all. Then you could have a war and 'genocide' in the name of atheism.

  I see this as a possibility ONLY because the nature of some people is to fight, war, kill, dominate, steal, etc... and they will use whatever means necessary to see their ends accomplished. Right now and in the past, those people have used religion... just as you said in the same quote above. They wantonly use their irrational beliefs in a deity to justify hatred and murder.

  False and/or mislead Christians do the same. I won't speak for other religions, but if it is true of one, then probably the rest also.

  Basically, I'm just saying that if you were to give atheists more numbers and more power, then they might not be so tolerant of what they consider harmful and irrational and ignorant and dangerous. Those among them who have hatred and murder within them will tend to act out in a way that reflects that... just as those among religion with hatred and murder tend to act out in a way that reflects that.

  I know not of which videos and statements you refer to, and I would appreciate a link or reference so that I might review the source of your assertion with an open mind, if it please you.

  Just comments I've read on Youtube comments, and even some on here. I'll note them when I see them again, or I might go and look some up for you, so you can see too right now. But there is a thread around recently that suggested bombing all the muslims after they killed those UN workers. Never mind that there would be innocents among them. I'll go find that link for you at least. If the thought is there in some people, then its there in others as well.

  BRB.
• 

  tec

  Here's the one I was talking about:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/208267/1/Help-me-understand-the-burning-of-the-Quran

  This does not describe all believes in the world, but many of the comments do not differentiate between the innocent and the guilty of the same faith.
• 

  tec

  This suggests by some that all religious people be thrown into an asylum, lol.

  (PC, please note that I do not think that most atheists think as some of these comments show... I think these thoughts are a minority among atheists. I think most atheists would prefer a live and let live... just don't drag your god into my life... mentality. Also please note that I would LOVE for their to be separation of church and state, if only to keep religion out of governmental power. At least then religion could not be blamed. At least then, God's name would not be tarnished by the actions of leaders claiming wars and other atrocities are being done in His name.)

  http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110104084326AAshLA8

  I would also like to say that if organized religion was gone and the world was at peace, I would salute the atheists who accomplished that and do what I could to continue to help it. I don't think that can happen, but I would eat crow if it did. But I would still have my faith in Christ and God. I just wouldn't have religion, which I already don't have anyway. I am not a true 'Christian' according to the standards of many Church doctrines and leaders as it is.

  Tammy
• 

  PublishingCult

  Basically, I'm just saying that if you were to give atheists more numbers and more power, then they might not be so tolerant of what they consider harmful and irrational and ignorant and dangerous. Those among them who have hatred and murder within them will tend to act out in a way that reflects that... just as those among religion with hatred and murder tend to act out in a way that reflects that.

  I think violence and the destruction of a human life is only justified in the case of self-defense.

  As we have seen, supposed acts of God have been atrocities committed at the hands of mere men and nothing more. So impotent has any god ever proven to be that all action, good or evil, has been left to mortal man in his feckless behalf. He writes a book, then checks out like a high school senior after finals. Indeed. If it should ever come to the point of which you speculate, then we shall have a sort of poetic justice.

  I think we are both, in this instance, educated and experienced enough to understand that Statism must also be eradicated. I would stand next to and defend the peaceful Christian who objects to violence, coercion and murder to accomplish an end, and who also abstains from such. Then I would warmly and fervently argue my case for atheism with him.
• 

  tec

  I would stand next to and defend the peaceful Christian who objects to violence, coercion and murder to accomplish an end, and who also abstains from such. Then I would warmly and fervently argue my case for atheism with him.

  This made me smile :)

  I would stand next to and defend the peaceful Atheist who objects to violence, coercion and murder to accomplish an end, and who also abstains from such. Then I would share my faith with them if they were willing to listen, unless they asked me not to do so.

  I just finished reading some of the most hateful, hateful, hateful comments in my entire life. Many of them were made by religious people; some of them I have no idea. But all were directed against muslim people. I just want to cry. I think I might. It isn't Christ or God who promote that kind of hatred. Its people.

  Tammy
• 

  PublishingCult

  I just finished reading some of the most hateful, hateful, hateful comments in my entire life. Many of them were made by religious people; some of them I have no idea. But all were directed against muslim people. I just want to cry. I think I might. It isn't Christ or God who promote that kind of hatred. Its people.

  Don't you love the irony? It really is people, you know? It has always been people. Just think! I mean really really think about this. The omnipotent and omniscient invisible almighty god, creator of the heavens and the earth, creator of the entire universe must have men write books for him, speak for him, act for him. Today, if we are good Christians and really try and follow the way Jesus spoke of as recorded by men, we want to consciously stand apart from the false Christians who commit atrocious acts in God’s name, don’t we? We know that a god whose attributes are a perfect balance of love, power, justice and wisdom would never ever consent or approve of his followers hating, bigoting, murdering, genociding, raping, etc.. God is love, by God!

  And from the Bible it is that we get the story of and the foundation for our Christian faith. The faith, morality and hope the Christian holds entirely dear comes from this book. Yet, in this book, we find God directing his people to commit the very crimes of hate and genocide, and in His name, we are suppose to abhor as evil and wicked. The very atrocities, no less, modern day Christians still try to emulate. For you see, the very nature and origin of Christianity has for its foundation, the recorded history of mere men doing injury to other men in the name of a god who must be spoken for, who cannot speak for himself, nor write for himself, nor can he seem to intervene and protect his coerced followers from a wicked being, Satan, He himself created in the first place.

  Would you allow a friend or even your child who has run amuck to remain in your house cursing, accusing, lying, stealing, harming, hurting and murdering precious other family members? What kind of person would allow such a thing if it were in their power to stop it? Would you say, “hold on, hold on, I have a point to make here. Before I do anything here, I just want to make sure that everyone under this roof understands who has the power to put an end to this insanity. And just to make sure you all get that I am one who you should be grateful to, I am going let the lunatic run rampant in the house for a time juuuuuuuust to make sure you all give me proper respect and adoration as I of course demand and deserve. I also just wanna see whether you are going to take up with this enemy of mine.”

  Wouldn't exercising your power to stop the insanity prove beyond a shadow of a doubt to all that you are the Mofo with the power? That you have higher values, morals, superior love and a sense of justice and wisdom befitting the almighty?

  “But the lunatic will kill us if you do not do something”, they rationally protest.

  “Not to worry!”, you assure them. “I have a special home just for you if he does kill you, but if you should ever take sides with him, and if you should die, you won’t get to come to my special after-death home for my until-death-loyals”.

  Who in their right mind would think that you were in your right mind?

  Ah, but my dear Tammy, do not cry. God is just. The men who invented Him said so in the Bible, and the men who assume authority to speak for him today say so as well. This must be so, therefore.
• 

  tec

  PC - Even if a person believes in the bible as the supreme authority, the words of Christ should take precedence over any other words. He is the one we are to listen to. He is the Truth. These people who hate and want war and want genocide committed... maybe they are listening to some things they've read in the bible. They killed and made war in the bible, so its justified. Right?

  But they are ignoring everything about Christ. They are not listening to Him. He corrected many things that were once believed. He explained the way they should be. But people still look to the OT over Christ. Some might do it to mislead, and some might just be misled because its 'in the bible'. But if they tested everything against Christ... well, I think we might see a different Christianity.

  As for Satan, I think he works with what is already there. Or if some don't take him literally, then he is what is already there. Looking to Christ helps us recognize the difference between what we should do, and sometimes what we feel like doing... and motivates us to follow as he taught.

  Some people are good and loving and moral by nature.

  I am not. I can be at times and I never want to hurt anyone, but I can also let pride or anger or cowardice even dictate what I do and sometimes that results in hurting someone... and for that I personally need Christ to remind me of love. Sometimes through that inner voice, sometimes through another member of his body.

  I am grateful for both.

  (and I'm SUCH a weepy girl today, lol)

  Tammy