by whereami 209 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
WOW. I didn't know by posting this that it would casuse a shit storm between believers.
I must say, it's fascinating and comical at the same time watching you guys fight over this.
And now back to the "I know God better then you do" bickering.
Ah.. you guys are a funny bunch.
dear whereami...
"WOW. I didn't know by posting this that it would casuse a shit storm between believers."...
may I suggest that you see THAT because you want to see that instead of people communicating their faith.
matthew 6:22
love michelle
whereami --- i thank you for addressing/making the statement about the trinity and starting the post. it's helpful and enlightening/educational.
WOW. I didn't know by posting this that it would casuse a shit storm between believers.
You see a shit storm?
Nah, just people expressing their views, as has always been done.
If you really want to see a shit storm you should see some of the "lineage wars" I have to moderate in a couple of the Martial arts forums I moderate, LOL !!
WOW. I didn't know by posting this that it would casuse a shit storm between believers.
I have to agree with the others. Just a discussion on our faith. Sometimes that discussion can get heated and passionate, as we are heated and passionate about our faith. Nothing wrong with that. I would ask that you consider the following wishes to me (a non-trinitarian), from two who believe strongly in the trinity, which is often quite a heated topic:
God bless, tec, in your faith journey. May you know the true Prince of peace if you do not already. - godrulz
I'm not looking down on you...I think that you are worth time and effort to help you understand. - myelaine
Peace
Tammy
Great posts everybody! Tammy, you in particular. For my part, I have not tried to offend anyone with my posts, so if it happened,,,sorry.
Also, although I believe in the Trinity, I am not trying to make anyone else believe it. I've 'lurked' on this topic for several pages before posting any comments. I only wanted to show that scripture describes the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost [Spirit] as all having the attributes of God. [creation of heavens and earth, forgives sins, gives eternal life, worthy of worship, etc, etc] All of this IS in the bible.
It is also worth noting that the scriptures also show the 'personage' [personage? Is that even a word??]...ahem, the personage of the Holy Spirit. For example, the Holy Spirit is often called 'he'. He [the Holy Ghost] can be lied to [acts 5;3] , can speak [Acts10;19] , hear [john 16;13-15], teach[john 14;26], pray and intercede [rom 8;26], love [rom 15;30], guide [john 16;13], call [acts 13;2], be grieved [eph 4;30], feel hurt [is 63;10], be outraged [heb 10;29]. These are examples of the attributes of a person. What 'active force' could feel hurt and be outraged?
I also do not believe that you need a full understanding of the Trinity to be saved. I never wrote that. Scripture says that we are saved by the GRACE of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Men MUST go through Jesus to reach God. Amen?
respectfully,
dc
AMen TTWSYF, Amen indeed :)
Seroiusly, TTWSYF?
How about a specific example, after all, I should be able to drive a car through your examples, right?
Did you just land on this planet? Go back a few pages and you'll drown in the scriptural examples.
Trinitarians can see the Trinity in a shopping list. It's quickly becoming clear why the Trinity is such a popular doctrine: It's a "faith" doctrine that has been adopted as a rite of passage by "true Christians". The Emperor's New Clothes of dogma, wherein belief indicates faith and revelation of Holy Spirit. If you don't see it, you're a "false Christian", "damned", or you "don't get it". It's not that Trinitarians can't see the Bible rejects the Trinity; they refuse to see the Bible rejects the Trinity, because that will take away (what they perceive is) everything they've worked so hard to achieve in their quest for salvation.
Just like JWs do mental backflips to convince themselves that the magisterium of the Governing Body is in line with Scripture, Trinitarians do the same to justify the Trinity. JWs are convinced you can't be saved unless you have faith in the "fds" (I put it in quotes, because there's no evidence the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew is anything akin to what JWs believe it is or that the Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is what Jesus described), just like Trinitarians are convinced you must have faith in the Trinity to be saved.
It's the same attitude as the Inquisitions without the laws to allow coercion. People with strong beliefs in weak arguments get very upset when they're around people who don't buy into their beliefs. This is why cults use emotional tactics, separatism, and elitism to oust dissenters and Trinitarians use fear: Imprisonment, torture, death, threats of Hellfire. Their (speaking of all religions with fantasy doctrines) "proof" only exists in their own eyes, because of what they've been brainwashed to see, when they read "proof texts". They cherry-pick Bible translations that support their pet belief and call others "biased", cherry-pick verses, cherry-pick words within verses, and blatantly extrapolate beliefs which aren't there in most cases.
Trinitarians can't be reasoned with, because the Trinity belief isn't a rational one, but an emotional one. Arguing this doctrine is like arguing with someone who insists blue is the best color. Nobody is ever going to convince someone a belief they strongly choose to hold is false or even unprovable. In their minds, it's a slam-dunk and you just don't see it, because you aren't as enlightened. The strongest type of brainwashing is the kind one does to one's self and this is what Trinitarians and other cults do.
just like Trinitarians are convinced you must have faith in the Trinity to be saved.
It's funny because I have yet to meet ONE that things that way.
I even had the pleasure of speaking with the archbishop of Toronto Thomas Collins after a lecture he gave and asked him about that and he was qyite clear that Salvation is based on God's Grace through Jesus Christ and nothing else.
It's funny because I have yet to meet ONE that things that way.
Likewise, I've never encountered a JW who will admit there is human leadership which must be obeyed. The fds and Trinity doctines are nearly identical in every way. Extrapolated from Scripture and forced down the laity's throats until they "get it". Once the laity "get it", their fragile egos get bent all out of shape when dealing with someone who doesn't "get it".
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved. - Athanasian Creed
Just like JWs, you have to nail them down in their writings, because those can't be adapted to weasel out of the argument.
