Amazing's Triumph - Mixed Feelings

by Perry 65 Replies latest jw friends

  • Valentine
    Valentine

    Hi Eguy,
    I'm not speaking for amazing here. Just from what I know from experience during my JW yrs.

    Since we had all been taught ad nauseum that the sealing of the 144,000 was completed in 1935...... those who claimed to be of the remnant way after that(called young anointed) were not looked upon postively. There were actually 2 thoughts about this(at my kh anyway,that 1.They were cranks(mentally emotionally ill) or 2. they were pretty full of themselves...........so I can see why someone of his age may have not been accorded the same reverence a very elderly anointed one enjoyed. hugs,Tina

    Todays Affirmation:
    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working.

  • hillary_step
    hillary_step

    Perry,

    I would like to join the other posters in expressing my thanks for your sincere post.

    It stands as an example of how people can 'speak' to one another on this Board, disagree or question another view, and yet do so without starting a cycle of insults and verbal one-upmanship.

    It is never easy for anyone to extract themselves from a high control group like the JW's. All pay their price, all leave damaged in some way or the other.

    Those on the outskirts of the web perhaps have less of a struggle than those closer to the spiders beating heart. For example, a family on the outskirts, where the father did not serve as an elder or MS. might have less trouble freeing themselves than a childless couple, for example like Ray Franz, or the Dunlaps whose profile was more public. It is the collateral damage, rather than the explosion that seems to cause the most pain.

    Without entering too heavily into the pro/anti Amazing debate, I will say that I think that Amazing tries to hard to please his opponents.

    The British Diplomatic Corps had a saying, 'Never apolgise. Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe it'. Though a little extreme, it has some merit.

    Once again Perry, thank you for your post - it raises some very important issues.

    Best regards -- HS

  • Joyzabel
    Joyzabel

    Perry, very well thought out post.

    Yes I can easily see that you have “issues” that seem like Amazing has been able to conquer. I sympathize with you.

    Having been slowly fading with my hubby and observing two other elders that stepped down at the same time as he, with wives that do not understand where their husbands are “at”, it is hard to find ways to break the wtbts’ armor. It is very frustrating and makes me anxious to reach my friends. For now all I see is a further chasm developing as the wives turn their backs and close their minds to the thoughts their husbands have been trying so patiently to help them see the “troof”.

    Like you said,
    “But for the life of me, I can't seem to secure an effective weapon, like Amazing did, that has a reasonable chance of success of helping even one family member out.”
    However, with this situation I feel an almost total ineptness at even conceiving how to get started. The enemy appears too strong and my personal arsenal pitiful. However, how can I in good conscience ignore the fight? The odds tell me I'll only end up like the anthropologist in the parable. I would very much like to somehow change those odds.”

    I come to this forum to seek ways to help my friends and family “out”. But there is no magic wand. There is no one thing that will stun another human to see what you see. But I have learned from others here that it takes a lot of patience and love. One poster here was df’d for 6 years, while he wife faithfully attended until she recognized true Christian love and left. So who knows how long it will take for each individual or family. But I have become aware of the grieving process that has started in me due to losing something that I once held as dear (the teachings and community of the wtbts). And the grieving with all its emotions must be hitting you too. Allow yourself time to grieve and to be jealousy over others that seem to have had an easy result talking to their family and friends. I’m sure it wasn’t as easy as we, who are struggling now, think it was. Then do the best you can. If you live your life with happiness and love, that will puzzle most jws as they think there is no happiness outside their organization.

    All I’m trying to say is hang in there. Be patient with yourself. You may have been a success financially, but that doesn’t mean everyone is going to automatically follow the course you are taking now.

    Come and vent here all you want. It might be therapeutic for you and you might find some little “thing” that will help you dent the armor and hopefully get through the wtbts mindset of your family and friends.

    j2bf

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    I can't, in all honesty, knock Amazing for what he did, nor the means he used to achieve it. I applaude his success, especially since it gives hope to those that have the stamina to attempt the methods.

    I can, however, also see where Perry is coming from and really enjoyed the eloquence.

    I suspect that it's horses for courses. No method is guaranteed to succeed, and given the scale of the problem the odds on succeeding are minimal.
    <Groan> - time for me to get depressed, again!

    Tina hit the nail on the head about the "anointed". I had viewed them that way, myself, and knew the mentality.
    Most of the "young anointed" that I've contacted have kept their heads below the parapet, else made their escape.

    1935 - IMHO a man-made solution to a man-made problem.

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Perry,

    Like the others here I would like to thank you for such a fine post, you opened your heart to us and helped us to understand not only you but also ourselves a little bit better.

    For what it's worth I would like to share with you some good news I have received recently. My sister called me and said that she and her husband have been reading the Bible, just the Bible alone without the Watchtower publications and they have come to realize that the Watchtower is not what it has claimed to be. She has decided to leave just on that basis, their Bible reading. They have not read COC or gone on the internet.

    I share this with you because I know what it feels like to have lost family to the Org., and who knows maybe you too will get a surprising phone call one day! I hope so!!!

    IW

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Tina: You make some excellent points. I hope some comments here helps:

    "Since we had all been taught ad nauseum that the sealing of the 144,000 was completed in 1935. ... those who claimed to be of the remnant way after that(called young anointed) were not looked upon postively."
    Right on. This was gradual though. I have known some who claimed to be Anointed starting the the 1940s, so as they aged, and performed well as JWs, they were still accepted in time. This could still be true into the 1950s, and a little into the 1960s. But, by the 1970s it really changed and got worse from there.

    "There were actually 2 thoughts about this(at my kh anyway,that 1. They were cranks(mentally emotionally ill) or 2. they were pretty full of themselves...........so I can see why someone of his age may have not been accorded the same reverence a very elderly anointed one enjoyed. hugs,Tina
    Yes and no. The YES of it is: The Society by the 1970s was publishing articles that raised serious questions about any new JWs claiming to be Anointed, and/ro anyone younger in years, especially if they were not performing up to JW expectations. This is why when a half-way reasonable JW comes to believe they are Anointed, they are often scared to death to make that openly known. That was my case for several years before I began partaking.

    The No of it is: As the years go by, and you get apponted to MS and then Elder, your age advances, you Aux or Reg Pioneer, there comes a general acceptance. At first the CO will question an Anointed every visit, but over time they too accept and it recedes into the background for everyone. Only at Memorial time is everyone reminded. The key is continual "Performance" to expectations ... making the Meetings, having Parts, giving at least halfway good Talks,
    Commenting regularly, being out Door-to-Door, being at Conventions and Assemblies, accepting assignments from cleaning toilets, to nailing in new roof tiles ... being there part of the program.

    As I got into my late 30s and early 40s, a little gray hair, sering as Elder etc. then the acceptance became better. The population of JWs becomes younger and younger, and as the older JWS get older and die off, a person starts to come across as experienced, and seems much older to the younger crowd.

    Were I to have remained a JW and continued to serve as an Elder, and then Pioneered, followed by Circuit Work, I have no doubt that the Anointed label would become more and more accepted, and any sense of being a nutcase would have all but dimished to about 0.

    None of this would be because of me, but the JW System as directed by the Society. They discourage any JW from proclaiming to be Anointed as this helps fulfill their doctrine. But as the Anointed JW keeps perfoming, even the Society begins to accept them. A calssic example is that of Sam Herd. He was newly Anointed long after 1935. But he finally got into Circuit and Distr4ict work, and now he is on the GB. I have little doubt that any JW would view him as a nutcase, simply because the System finally accepted and promoted him, validating him to the highest levels.

    The JW religion is very political. Once the "Game" is learned, one can achieve all sorts of benefits by way of position, prominence, power, prestiege, perks, etc. Amnesian made this case very well. The higher up one goes, whether Anointed or not, the political aspects become more and more pronounced, more obvious, and more tempting.

    As for "Full of themnselves" ... I can see this more in those who keep advancing in the Organization whether Anointed or not. Not all who advance are that way ... but the numbers who keep succeeding seem to become more and more of those who are full of themselves. This is true in any organization, be it religious, business or political. Yet, even at the very top in any of these, there are those who maintain a balance, and are the ones who often do the most good. ray Franz is a good example of the few that make it to the top, and manage to not become too full of themselves.

    The view that the Anointed are "too full of themselves" at the lower levels is a "myth" fostered by the Society and swallowed by the average JWs. What makes this "Myth" have some life is when a real nutcase of "Full-of-themselves" JW says their of the Anointed. This validates the Watchtower "myth" and then rank & file JWs look on with more belief in the Society for its awesome wisdom and insight. Barf!!!

    But many Anointed JWs (I don't believe in the Anointing as such, but speaking from the JW perspective) many Anointed are very shy, very uncomfortable with their self-realized calling, and dred the Memorial, and are glad when the Memorial is over. These types are often not noticed as much. Unfortunately the nutcases stick out like sore thumbs ... and give a balck eye to the JW Anointed who are otherwise okay people.

    That is my take from my own experience and view. I am sure that there are 100 different views and as many different experiences. But they all have one thing in common ... the Watchtower religion is far removed from anyting one might call Christian.

  • wildeflower
    wildeflower

    Perry - wonderful post. Amazing & Perry - wonderful posts to each other. Those are the types of conversations I look for on this site - respectful & honest.

    Perry I understand SO much about trying to find ways to make your family understand.

    I left at 17 years old and that was 15 years ago. Coming from a very close family - elder father, mother & brother, I lost all of them. To this day, it breaks my heart. I have to figure out each day how to keep it in perspective and where exactly my reponsibility lies as far as how & how much do I try to convince them when all I get in return is quoted Scriptures and being ignored.

    My goal is to lead a fulfilling happy life and let that be an example to them and hope that their logical minds & search for truth will lead them where they need to go.

  • jukief
    jukief

    I'm getting ready to leave the office and only had time to skim this thread, so forgive me if someone else already mentioned this.

    As far dubs looking down on younger people who become "annointed," aren't one or two of the most recent GB members younger men who became "annointed" long after the 1930s-era cut off?

    Julie

  • JT
    JT

    Because our commitment to "truth" was so intense, when we learned the truth about the truth we immediately (or almost) took a stand and now find ourselves totally ripped from the fabric of normal family life, as if we ever had one in the first place. No one in my family going back 4 generations and as wide as 3rd and 4th cousins has ever left this religion.
    ##########

    I hear what Perry is saying , but i think a very vaulable point can be missed-- I have always stated that i believe that the NET "THANG" can provide so many persons with the proper understanding of HOW AND WHEN TO LEAVE WT

    in my personal view i see continually so many who have no idea of how to leave wt- they jump up and shout "Kiss My A$$" to eveyone they know then wonder why they are being shafted-

    most former jw in my view have not taken the time to examine how the High Control groups such as jw truly impact the loyal jw

    so many times i read of former jw who want thier family TO SEE and it tells me that that don't understand WHY THEIR FAMILY CAN'T SEE

    this is where the net comes in at- we get to read exp of folks like AMAZING who in my view has one of the best examples of how to leave wt
    so many former jw try to SHOVE the wt flipflops down thier family thraots almost the reverse of what many did while still in wt

    and just like so many of us as jw can tell of the relative who literally banned us from thier home due to always PREACHING as we leave we can do the same in reverse- and get the same and often times worst results

    while perry many not have had the chance or information on things to consider before he left- any one coming to the net today does

    I beg any Lurkers out there if you are considering leaving the org

    learn to do it the right way- while it is true you will have bumps and bruises knowing how can at least reduce the mental pain and suffering

    whether you DA yourself or not is up to you, but when you do - you want n0 regrets about a I WISH I HAD DONE IT A DIFFERENT WAY

    Learn from those of us who hav left and left with a measure of being INTACT

    the pain doesn't have to be as painful if you plan your leave

    JUST MY 2
    JAMES

    ps THIS WAS SOME ADVICE I THINK ANY WHO WANTS TO LEAVE NEEDS TO CONSIDER:
    Libby,
    Thank you for your post.
    That was a beautiful note, far more likely to move an elder to read and digest that an expose, however well researched of the WTS doctrinal failings.
    In the late 80's as an elder, I was once handed a DA letter that was actually a binder of 112 pages, complete with Chapter contents and a key of how to read it. The only paragraph that was searched for by the committee was the one that contained the word 'disassociate'.
    The WTS has little heart, but uses its head and the JW who is leaving needs to do the same in order to leave with minimal scars.
    I have in recent times helped a quite senior person in the WTS see through the WTS, he resigned his position recently. My advise to him and others in his situation is to stay exactly where he is as part of the WTS until he knows exactly where he is going.
    Plan a life before you leave, from what I have seen it greatly minimises the turmoil of the financial, marital, social and spiritual agony, that can result from a rapid and emotional severance.
    Kindest regards -- HS

  • Perry
    Perry

    Island Woman- I'll try to kep that hope alive - TY

    Joy2BFree - "I come to this forum to seek ways to help my friends and family “out”. But there is no magic wand. There is no one thing that will stun another human to see what you see. But I have learned from others here that it takes a lot of patience and love. One poster here was df’d for 6 years, while he wife faithfully attended until she recognized true Christian love and left. So who knows how long it will take for each individual or family."

    Thanks for your reply Joy. That's the kind of pro-active advice I like to hear.

    I think that everyone got the gist of my post with the possible exception of proplog2. Knowing how he previously reasoned that celebrating Christmas to be an unnecessary "returnig to vomit" activity and failing to sense the familial value of such, causes me to see his "logic" in determining engineering as a control freak field.

    However, just to sharpen the blade a tad, and make sure no one missed my main point, I in no way view what Amazing did as "controlling" in an unethical sense. Nor would I have acted any differently under the circumstances. He did, what I believe any sane person would have done - exercise control to achieve a positive outcome.

    Furthermore, I didn't mean to suggest or minimize the pain that he or anyone else has experienced as a result of 25 years in the Tower.

    What I am concerned about is from a practical stand point. What works?? Are their any seasoned people out there that have discovered tools that have proved effective short of being an annointed elder?

    Even if no else in the Borg thought Amazing's annointing was genuine, (I personally believe he thought he was), certainly his family did....and that's the point. They were all that mattered. Like Hillary-step alluded to: He owed nothing to people outside his family. His friends didn't need it and his enemies would never believe it.

    But, the Annointed label and the knowledge of his own sinfulness that so often escapes the R&F which caused him to, for example: look at his elder judging peer in amazement and hypocriitical angst when giving counsel to a brother laden with the crushing guilt of the sin of masturbation, allowed a unique perspective, clarity of thought, and mental fortitude to eventually do battle and kick the living S*** out of the Borg from his home.

    Those kinds of tools are simply not available, and I would venture to say that Amazing is a lone example in that particular regard. He fought heavenly annointing with heavenly annointing, trickery with trickery, control with control; and for that I applaud him and am a tad bit jealous (starting to get over it a little more now :-).

    The fact that this heoric feat is made all the more sensational by the maddening poetic justice embodied in the methods employed by beating them at their own game, in no way diminishes the stark helplessness many of us feel in the absence of effective methods of dealing with the on-going feelings of tangible loss of family.

    Maybe it's time to look up an exJW support group :-)

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