If one looks at all the verses in context and does credible word studies with objective Greek resources, my intellectual points (which I have barely started sharing) will stand up to scrutiny. Having passion about truth does not mean my ideas are emotionalism and false.
Is Rev 5:11-14 Worship or Obeisance?
by JCISGOD98 117 Replies latest watchtower bible
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still thinking
marking to read later
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slimboyfat
NT scholar James McGrath argues that Revelation does not present Jesus being worshipped in the sense that God is worshipped. He devotes a whole chapter to the book of Revelation in his book The Only True God: Early Christian Monotheism in its Jewish Context. This paragraph gives a flavour of his conclusions:
The inclusion of God's appointed representative alongside God as recipient of praise if noteworthy, but it is neither unique nor without precedent. Such a development was foreseen to a certain extent, and was perhaps even to be expected as a response to the appearance of God's agent in the realization of his eschatological salvation. Thus far we have observed no acts of worship that were normally reserved for God alone being unambiguously transfered to the Lamb. None of the features we have considered in this study appear inappropriate within the boundaries of early Jewish monotheism as attested in the extant literature from this period. And so the depicition of Christ in the Book of Revelation represents a development within the context of Jewish monotheism rather than a development away from Jewish devotion to only one God. (Page 76)
McGrath also notes, as has James Dunn, that while the verb proskunein is used of Jesus in the NT both the noun latreia (in the NWT "sacred service") and the verb latreuein are only used of God.
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AnnOMaly
McGrath also notes, as has James Dunn, that while the verb proskunein is used of Jesus in the NT both the noun latreia (in the NWT "sacred service") and the verb latreuein are only used of God.
This is an important observation. Thanks for bringing it out, slim. It'll be interesting to get godrulz's thoughts on that.
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PSacramento
For every scholar that can "point out" the difference of worship givne to Jesus ( interpretation) there are thosw that can show that it was the same.
The crucial point is this ( in my view):
Was there ANY reason why they ( and Us) should NOT worship Jesus in the way they worshipped God?
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designs
Because he died, just sayin...gods don't usually do that..
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PSacramento
Because he died, just sayin...gods don't usually do that..
But he didn't stay dead
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godrulz
Who is McGrath? Is he a conservative Christian, biblical scholar, a liberal pseudo-scholar, a cultist? What does his whole book say in light of his personal views vs one paragraph?
The fact that the same word is used for worship of Jehovah as Jesus is telling. It also can be used of worship of false gods. So, it is the same as theos being used of Jehovah, Jesus, and Satan. Context is king/key. Remember that we do not build a doctrine on one word or verse, but on the cumulative evidence of all relevant verses in context.
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slimboyfat
For every scholar that can "point out" the difference of worship givne to Jesus ( interpretation) there are thosw that can show that it was the same.
Sure. James Dunn, one of the most respected NT scholars alive, recently wrote a book Did the First Christians Worship Jesus? in which he describes his answer as a qualified no. He makes the same point about latreia only being directed to God. Scholars seem to be coming round to that point of view, which is good in my view because that's clearly where the NT texts lead when you strip out later dogma. Hurtado may prove to be the last hurrah for the Evangelicals pushing for an unsustainably high NT Christology within mainstream scholarship.
Was there ANY reason why they ( and Us) should NOT worship Jesus in the way they worshipped God?
Is there any reason why Jesus should receive the highest form of worship, "sacred service" from believers when Jesus himself says that belongs to God alone in Luke 4?
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designs
Anybody seen HIM lately, just sayin some proof would be nice...