Do we need a 'Faithful and Discrete Slave' ? (page 3)

larc

MDS,

Matt. 24:45 is a story to illustrate a point and nothing more. When you start with a false premise, like you did, you end up with faulty conclusions.

MDS

Larc,

Rev. 1:20, as ISP noted above, shows christians under the headship of Jesus christ, grouped together... congregated together...be it for good or bad, still gathered together.

Why aren't you?

Larc, did you not see when you read Rev. 2nd and 3rd chapters, the False "christians," false brothers in those congregations! False christians, like Wicked "Jezebel," or the nefarious "sect of Nicolaus," and also the leavenous "teachings of Balaam" ... they were all present, right within the congregational setting. And Jesus dealt with the polluting "situation."

This is irrefutable evidence of problems existing of a serious nature, right within the congregational setting, under the headship of Jesus Christ! It does happen...

Are Jehovah's Witnesses, all 6 million of them, any different today?

So what's your point... Are you claiming to be a footstep follower of Jesus or not? A Jehovah's Witness or not?

If not, then you do what ever you please...and you answer to God later. Whether you meet, congregate or not.

And similarly, if you are a "christian," then scripturally, you are EXPECTED TO BE CONGREGATED TOGETHER...in a congregation. That's Bible.

As for your "opinion" on the FD&S info, ... that's only your "opinion."

I have my reasons for what I have said. Scriptural reasons. That's because I understand what the FD&S is about...its true meaning.

I also, understand what Matt. 13:41 says about, "lawlessness and stumbling" going on in the "kingdom of God," in these last days...then too, how God cleans up His own "kingdom."

I understand this...do you?

MDS

Edited by - MDS on 12 January 2001 0:32:10

larc

MDS,

Well, you said a lot, but nothing about Matt. 24:45.

MDS

How about Matt 13:41...?

Can you deal with it?

MDS

PS: I've already posted a load of information on the "Curing staff" and the "Faithful Steward," based upon Luke 12:42, which covers your question about Matt. 24:45. However, if you want me to "repost it"...then I will.

larc

MDS,

What I want you to do is to explain to me why Matt. 24:45 is anything more than a story.

larc

By the way,

Don't quote other scriptures, because they have no bearing on this scripture in question. Tell me why it should mean more than it says.

MDS

I think Matt. 13:41 is a scripture that is very, very, very difficult to explain, if one has left the organization because of seeing "wrongdoing." When one comes face to face with this scripture, we become "tongue-tied." Its difficult to read and explain this scripture, at least without "stepping on toes", toes of many who say Jehovah's Witnesses ARE NOT God's Organized People.

Why are they not God's People...is it the wrongdoing that is going among them, that you can plainly see???

Well..... read

Matthew 13:41 which says:

"The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out from HIS KINGDOM all things that cause stumbling and persons who are doing lawlessness."

PLEASE NOTE: Because "lawlessness" and "stumbling" is admittedly going on among JWs today, point blank proves and defines the present-day situation, more importantly, the even worse, UPCOMING "situation" we will see among them as Bible prophecy indicates. Today, as a congregation JWs are some 6 million strong. But "problems" will worsen for them, "Israel." Verses like Matt. 13:41 and 24:12, are strong scriptural points, that cannot be denied. Jehovah's Witnesses, with ALL OF THEIR WICKEDNESS, are still GOD'S PEOPLE, and the above scripture proves it!

These above mentioned verses also really reveal something else too. Spiritual weaknesses in some of God's Name People. They reveal the fact that many, many "christians," do not like, nor will tolerate... wickedness occurring right within God's Congregation!!!

If they see it, some, some go straight home and don't even look back. But are they considering the Scriptures, the Word of God? Are they?

Have they gotten whole story?

Can't stomach wrongdoing in the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses?
Should we be able to do so... have a tolerance level of sorts? Does God expect this?

We reminded, the congregation, the "kingdom of God," the one Jesus presides over as the Head of the congregation, is FORETOLD TO BECOME COMPLETELY CORRUPTED!!!

The Bible says so!

Matt. 13:41.

What is our reaction to known wrongdoing?

Well, we see wrongdoing in the congregation, get mad, and leave! ... Go Home... and tell ourselves that we are sooooo, soooo righteous!

We act like Jehovah and Jesus didn't see it at all!

But are we righteous? Or, are we "overrighteous," "self-righteous," since Jesus is a lot more "righteous" than we will ever be... But he allowed it to happen, and he patiently waited to see our "reactions" to this known "wickedness." The Governing Body's wickedness!

How did we react? Some of us, got mad, incensed and left the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses... the "field," the "kosmos," the "arrangement," that had become "polluted," corrupted. That's what we did?

We showed we lacked true "understanding" of the matter. The counsel at Luke 18:8 could have helped us, but did we search the scriptures, to see what would God have us do... did we do this?

We simply said we could not deal with the "wickedness,"... but the Word of God, had already, FORETOLD the "wickedness," the "lawlessness," even the "stumbling" of our fellow brothers, yes, the Bible foretold, that it would come. Both, Matt. 13:41; 24:12 show that it was sure to happen. And it happened...

But how are we going to deal with it?

That's Matt. 13:41...deal with it.

Jesus also said clearly at Matt. 24:12,

"...because of the INCREASING OF LAWLESSNESS

[Greek: "anomia" lawlessness of, and violation of God's Law... not lawlessness against man's law, not crime from off the streets; spiritual "lawlessness" as within the congregation; the "man of lawlessness" kind...LAWLESSNESS IN GOD'S TEMPLE] -- the scripture continues...

... the LOVE OF THE GREATER NUMBER WILL COOL OFF..."

Spiritual "lawlessness," which is sin, causes a "cooling off" of "love" by fellow christians..., Love for God, and for man...just as Jesus said.

That's what the Bible says...

1 John 3:4 says all "lawlessness is Sin."

Its in the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses...now. It was allowed for a "test" ... a "test,"

How did we do, on the "test," ? How did we do? How did we react?

Now, what are you going to do? Repent, remain headlong in your course of rebellion and disobedience...what now?

Deny your spiritual inheritance, that God gave you, the dedication that He gave you, your spiritual inheritance as "Spiritual Israel," His Glorious Covenant, the privilege of Carrying God's Name upon yourselves...this privilege that he gave ALL christians... are you going to deny that, even though the G.B. and WTS are "lawless" ingrates...wicked. Still, we owe God, what about that?

Oh, you may say, "no we don't have to go back to the kingdom hall, and take those dreadful meetings and all anymore... with that wicked G.B. and WTS bunch...I'm staying home...I can serve God here...and learn just as much too..."

What does God think of you and your dedication, now? What does He think of your actions to leave?

What are you going to do, now?

MDS

PS: You don't want me to quote scriptures...I wonder why? Well, why should I explain the FD&S, a deep, deep spiritual subject when you can't even comprehend the simple, more basic responsibilities God has laid out before you. First understand Matt. 13:41... Do that first. Then maybe we can get somewhere... I'm not here to debate or argue. My work is too important for that. The FD&S is a "sacred secret" [mysterion], where one has to be "granted understanding", permitted by God first. Please, reread Matt. 13:11-15 where it shows, one must get the "sense" of the message to understand "sacred secrets" from God. Else, you are just "hearing" words in vain.

Edited by - MDS on 12 January 2001 1:57:37

larc

MDS,

I did not ask about Matt. 13, I asked about Matt. 24:45. Why do you give me nonanswer?

joel

As I stated in the previous post about the F&DS...
Christians...any Christians...are considered either...faithful and discreet or evil depending on their relationship with God.
So to ask...do we need a Faithful and Discreet Slave...is to ask...do we need Christians...it's not a matter of need...that's just who we are.

And if we read in the Bible what the meetings were like and what information was studied at those meetings(Acts 2:42 ;20:7,8)...we see no need for a special class of Christians in control.

Pax, joel

larc

Joel,

I agree, if people follow the example that Jesus provided in the story, then they, as individuals deserve that term being applied to them, as individuals. There is no way that the story can be interpreted to apply to an organization.

Do we need a 'Faithful and Discrete Slave' ?

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