Do we need a 'Faithful and Discrete Slave' ?

by ISP 62 Replies latest jw friends

  • MDS
    MDS

    Larc,

    Regarding Matt. 24:45.

    You said you'd prefer if I wouldn't quote scriptures when I post on a Bible subject...I wonder why?

    So...I'm supposed to explain the account at Matt. 24:45 to your satisfaction, without using the Bible?

    I think not.

    But more importantly, why should I explain the FD&S, a deep, deep spiritual subject when you can't even comprehend the simple, more basic responsibilities God has laid out before you. First understand Matt. 13:41... Do that first.

    Then maybe we can get somewhere...

    I'm not here to debate or argue. My work is too important for that.
    Remember, the FD&S is a "sacred secret" [Greek: mysterion], where one has to be "GRANTED UNDERSTANDING", given Divine permission by God first. Please, reread Matt. 13:11-15 where it shows, one must get the "sense" of the message to understand "sacred secrets" from God. Else, you are just "hearing" words in vain.

    First understand Matt. 13:41 and 24:12...do that first, and we will further the discussion...

    MDS

  • larc
    larc

    MDS,

    Sometimes things are really simple and there is no Sacred Secret. Because you list a bunch of scriptures together does not mean they have any bearing on the simple, but elegant story that Jesus used to help his students understand the importance of what he was saying. That is all it is. A story. It has no other meaning.

  • joel
    joel

    I see the problem as...some still see it as a special gift to be able to know what the Bible says.

    Some still believe that not all Chrisians have God's Spirit to understand what His Word means.

    1 John clearly teaches we(Christains) are all Spirit filled(born from God) in 5:1...therefore...1 John 2:27 applies to all Christains...read and take comfort in your God given abilities.

    Of course there are some "hard to understand"(2 Pet. 3:16) texts...Peter knew that there will always be that...but what Christains NEED to know is there clearly for those with God's Spirit to decern.

    Pax,
    joel

  • larc
    larc

    Joel,

    Sometimes it is just a matter of clearing all the cob webs out of your head and using your inate intelligence to form your own conclusions as to what has been said and what it means.

  • ISP
    ISP

    Hi MDS,
    Thank you for your response. I appreciated very much the thought you put into the matter. I hope we can continue the dialogue as I enjoy very much a dialogue that is centred on scripture and highlights common sense and good conscience.
    I am happy to accept that Matt 24:45 can/will describe an arrangement provided by God. Revelation chapter 2 etc. describes Jesus inspecting his people during the ‘Lords Day’ and his people are to be found in congregations. However has this been fulfilled yet or is it something some have claimed in error. Any such claims have to be looked at closely.

    *** Rbi8 Matthew 24:45-47 ***
    45 “Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Happy is that slave if his master on arriving finds him doing so. 47 Truly I say to YOU, He will appoint him over all his belongings.

    Turning to history for a minute it should be said that the FDS says it was appointed in 1919 - 5 years or so after Jesus came in kingdom power. A number of difficulties arise. What ‘food’ was being provided at the time of appointment regarding the arrival of Jesus? Jesus was said to have arrived considerably earlier in the late 1870s. This could not be described as food at the proper time. This remained official teaching until the 1940s when it was determined that Jesus came in 1914. The difficulty is the ‘FDS’ only realized 30 years or so later that Jesus came in 1914. This is not helpful in determining that Jesus when he came in 1914 would choose a FDS that did not accurately teach others the very basics of his arrival.

    Logically Jesus would not have appointed the WTS President as the FDS in 1919. It should also be noted that the FDS was nothing like the official teaching in that it has been associated with the President of the WTS and note the congregation of anointed ones who have little or no input into the food provided to ‘the domestics’. As presidents came and went the FDS became associated with the GB and again the anointed ones were ignored. Now virtually all the GB and anointed ones have passed away or cannot help in an effective manner.

    Notwithstanding the above the FDS has taken on for itself the mantle of deciding all sorts of personal matters including areas of sexual behaviour and personal conscience. The results have been arbitrary and contradictory.

    On matters of faith I do not need to go into the various errors in understanding prophecy and scripture. E.g Beth-Sarim, 1975, Generation teaching. There are grave difficulties at the present with policy on blood and child abuse. These will be improved in due course but in the meantime damage can be done to individuals.

    These errors do not indicate a divinely appointed FDS who would provide ‘meat in due season’. The individuals concerned do not have to demonized by those who would oppose. I am sure that most if not all served to the best of their ability. You cannot pour a gallon out of a quart measure. Taking the matter as a whole it is difficult to accept that Jesus has appointed the WTS, one or all of the 5 legal corporations, the presidents of the past, the GB of the past or whoever in the WT world who claim the mantle, as the FDS mentioned in the scripture. Time is marching on very soon all the GB as were, will have passed away. The anointed ones also would have died leaving ‘great crowd’ members here on earth. When will the penny drop?!

    Any thoughts?

    ISP

    Edited by - ISP on 12 January 2001 17:2:1

  • ianao
    ianao

    MDS! MDS! MDS!

    Once again, you are here on this forum, attempting to convert ex jaydubs over to JW version 2.0.

    What is your true purpose? You haven't head enough soup, have you? No doubt you are preying on people such as Struggle, who are trying to get out of a controlling situation. SHAME on you! You prey on the troubled seeking help. Tsk. Tesk.

    Contrary to what you have been advised above by the majority, (but not all, just some), has to be viewed as totally, unscriptural. It represents "the thoughts" and ideas "of man, and not the higher, thoughts of God." -- See Mark 8:33

    The Biblical interpretation you put forth is indeed your own ideas, and some of the big WT's. You are doing nothing more than fulfilling your own prophecy by re-interpreting other's ideas.

    *YAWN*

    -ianao

    Edited by - ianao on 12 January 2001 17:17:11

  • larc
    larc

    ISP,

    Why do you think that Matt. 24:45 is anything more that a useful story. There is no way to prove that it means anything beyond what it says. Perhaps Jesus was thinking something like "I'm going to tell a story to my students. This story will help fix a very important idea in their mind. Also, this story will apply to something 2000 years from now" Don't think that sounds like a pretty far fetched theory? I think it is down right silly.

  • ISP
    ISP

    larc

    I said 'I am happy to accept that Matt 24:45 can/will describe an arrangement provided by God. '

    And I am happy to accept it. However, as I see it there are two viable alternatives.

    1. There is no application of Matt 24:45 beyond Jesus day for the FDS.

    2. The 'FDS' of the Bible has not been appointed yet.

    ISP

  • larc
    larc

    I think you can see that I favor alternative #1. Now, I think it is reasonable to say that some people take the story to heart and behave like the faithful slave in the the story. To say that there will be an organized class of such people either now or in the future has no basis.

  • larc
    larc

    ISP,

    If you are going to discard WT teaching, get rid of all of it, not half of it. You are still accepting their basic FDS premis which has absolutely no basis.

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