Ya'll dont believe in God?

by flower 125 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  tyydyy

  Flower,
  I went through the exact same thought process you are going through. I'm still searching for answers. As long as you are alive you'll be searching for answers. The thing is.... there are many answers that we won't have in our lifetime. Is there life on other planets? Can we duplicate the human mind? Why do kids refuse to listen to good advice? I'm sure you will find many more.

  Basically Flower, you have just been born. You have just begun to think for yourself. You have just fallen out of the nest. It's a little scary right now. Now you have to realize that you are going to have to do it on your own. Of course, it helps to bounce your questions and ideas off other people but the decision is yours. Just as the consequences are yours.

  When it comes to morals/ethics, again you have to decide for yourself what is right and wrong. You may find that your morals/ethics come very close to some religions. That doesn't mean that you have to join that religion. It just means that your thoughts are similar to the founder of that religion. Whether it was an individual or a society.

  Same is true when it comes to the purpose of life. You have to set your own personal goals. You have to decide your own purpose. That doesn't mean you should go through life with no purpose. Decide....Adjust.....but live life with purpose. Even if that purpose is to have fun.

  You can get some ideas from literature, philosophy and religion but I feel like the best ideas come from discussions with normal people like you and me. Keep asking questions even when you think you know the answers.

  Good luck
  TimB

  The harder you work.....The luckier you get.
• 

  teenyuck

  Flower-

  I do not believe in God.....

  I cannot expand upon what expatbrit, Abaddon and funkyderek said. They pretty much summed it up for me.

  Please do some research...learn...anything!

  I went back to college in my thirties. I made friends that I am still in touch with.

  You will never regret learning...you will regret someday not even trying.
• 

  SusanHere

  Hi, Flower,

  I wish I could reach out and hug you, to give what comfort that could afford. But maybe even that is not what you can take comfort from at this time. Many have never learned to accept such tokens of compassion and understanding.

  I feel for your pain, and your confusion. I was there, too, though not with JW background, thank goodness, but with the religion of my youth. By the time I was 12 I knew it was not for me. Does that mean, though, that it is not for anybody else? No. I don't believe that. Part of my birth family is still with that faith, and it is more or less meeting their needs, since their need for religion is very superficial, and that's what it affords in its present form. Sadly, it has morphed from a much stronger religion to the weak and watered-down relic it is today.

  My sister also left that religion to become JW, and has been now for several decades. It is the focus of her life. She has used it to justify some horrible decisions I know God would never approve of from a mother, a wife, or even just from one of his followers. The religion has not brought her happiness, but it has met some of her needs, and helped bind the wounds of a most tragic childhood. She continues to believe if she is not as happy in it as she expected to be, it can only because she herself is not living it as totally or as perfectly as everyone else seems to be. So the more unhappy she is, the more she throws herself into the work. I do believe God knows her heart to be honest, sincere, terribly wounded, and fragile and will bless her for her efforts someday. I believe the same can be said for the rest of my JW family members, who now number many.

  Flower, you are now adrift, and need to find a spiritual home. Some in here, as in the world, have found they have no need for spirituality in their life. But you, obviously, are not one of them. You have a deep love of God, though not of the organization. There is nothing wrong with that. Every church has those people who are drawn to it to fill their own needs. Some have a love of pagentry, some of mystery, some of meditation, etc. It is not by chance that there are so many religions out there.

  I do believe we all have a need to find our way home to God. Some turn away from that for a while, but may return to it in another stage of their lives, such as when children are born, or when prolonged illness or sorrow strikes, when the winds of adversity blow across their door, or when they become stooped with age. Others find their way back to God when joy and beauty fill their souls to overflowing, and they need to give thanks to God who created all things that are good in our lives.

  I do believe also that as long as we are seeking to find a closer bond with God, that he will lead us to himself. The mistake comes in being part of an organization, standing with it even when our spiritual growth tells us its time to move on. That's where you are now...moving on. Enjoy the journey! Let go of the negative teachings regarding other religions that you have heard all your life. Go out into the world and seek for truth. Visit other churches, talk to other people about what they believe and why. Read their books. Pray for wisdom. All religion has a measure of truth. Take what is true, take what is good, and then move on. Eventually you will find your spiritual home with good and likeminded people. I'd like to tell you where to look, but the journey must be your own.

  Good luck and God bless, Flower.

  Susan
• 

  SEAKEN2001

  Flower,

  I commend you for attempting to travel into unknown and uncharted realms in your life. I can see you are trying. But you are afraid. Understandable. Life can be scary.

  You may bristle at what I am about to say and reject it because it makes you afraid, but listen:

  There are no right answers.

  If you do break through and begin investigating your questions in an effort to prove to yourself what is right and true you will end up with more questions than answers. At any point along the way you can stop and rest awhile but know that you will never prove or disprove the existance of god or gods.

  My personal approach was to question everything. After all, I had been programmed to believe in what turned out to be a lie. Why should I blindly accept anything as truth? That openned up everything to criticism, the Bible, Christianity, God, Religion, Science, Education, everything. It is scary but you must work it out for yourself. Don't take anyones word as truth without using your own reasoning ability. Personal evidence is not always needed but objectivity is essential. It sounds to me like you need to learn how to think on your own. And telling people what they can or cannot say to you is counter productive. If you really want to search out the answers to your questions you must allow anything and everything to be discussed and presented for consideration.

  I believe god exists and I believe god does not exist. It's all in your mind. God is representative of what is in your own thoughts about the very real situation that all of us humans know, that there is something outside of our conscious existance that we can't bring into focus. Some call this spirituality or a sub-conscious. But you must work this out for yourself and be happy with your own grasp of the unknown. Somewhere along the line you will have to believe in yourself and accept your own beliefs. The journey is scary but it is also wonderfully empowering and it is this journey that is often responsible for all kinds of human ideas about what is unknown. Join the human race and let your own ideas unfold before you.

  Sean

  P.S. This is all just random thoughts and very philosophical. I'm not suggesting that you will never get to where you want to go. You will. But you must do the work.
• 

  siegswife

  I still believe in God, flower.
• 

  Abaddon

  flower; "I'm just shocked. I cant understand how what the purpose of life is withough a God. I dont even like entertaining this possibility but I cant not. I wish I hadnt started this thread."

  You are now struggling with cognitive dissonance. You're belief (god) is being challanged, you are intelligent enough to realise it is not an open-and-shut case of 'yes there is', and the thought that not only the religion you have based your entire life on, but that the entire CONCEPT you have based your life on might be a big lie is understandably daunting. You don't even want to think about the implications

  Do not however, slip into the shallow redundent reasoning of theists speculating on how worthless life is if there is no god. If there is no god, then life has exactly as much worth as it had before. It's just you don't believe in fairy stories any longer.

  Look at the Santa arguement. A 5 year-old discovers there is no Santa. Is life now worthless? No. Why? Because everyone important loves him just as much as before he knew, the love they put into making his Christmas special is just the same, it's just it is now from his family and friends, rather than a mythical being.

  Hell, doesn't that make it sound better?

  Santa got you a doodah! Yippee, along with a billion other kids, wow, how... well... ordinary.

  Your mum and day scrimped and saved and planned long and hard, just to give you some joy. Woah! How WONDERFUL.

  Someone stops in the street and flips a beggar $5, asks how they're doing. Why? To impress god or be a good Christian/Muslim/Jew/Whatever. Oh. Okay.

  Another person does it because they WANT to, because it makes them feel good about themselves, because if they walk on by they feel like shit. How WONDERFUL.

  Someone gives their life to save a loved one, knowing they'll be reunited in the after-life. Impressive.

  Someone gives their life to save a loved one, because they value that loved ones life more than their own. How wonderful.

  Someone is really sad when someone dies, but looks forward to seeing them in the after-life. How sad.

  Someone is really sad when someone dies. They know they are gone, forever. They think of how brave, funny, special, clever, loving that person was, of how unique they were, and it humbles them and makes them want to be a better person, and makes them determined to make more of life, as it is all to briefly done. And they keep alive the memory of that person because if they don't do that, they really are gone forever, but by telling Jimmy how wonderful his grandma was, that he can't remember because he was too young when she died, and all the wonderful wisdom and kindness that she had, you keep grandma's memory alive and vibrant. How WONDERFUL.

  You live, you die, you get your reward afterwards. Okay...

  You live, you die, you have to get your reward NOW, as there is no afterwards. How energising! What a way to make what you do in life REALLY important. You can't duck responsibility to the guy upstairs to sort out the world's problems... you have to do it yourself with your fellow humans as no-one else is going to do it. How WONDERFUL.

  For me flower, the fact I don't really believe in god does not render my life meaningless. It makes it energised and important, a source of wonder and joy. It makes me feel like a member of the human race, rather than an occupant of some waiting room in some divine plan.

  Do not despair, thing will get better.

  People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
• 

  D wiltshire

  Flower,

  I believe their is a God that has a very loving purpose.
  I think since God is vastly older than us it may take us many years to appreciate why he has left us to search for him, I have my thoughts on this but could be wrong.

  Jesus said to "keep on searching and you will find". I think from those words we should see the need to do our own search. Many want a instant religion, someone who has done all the searching for us so we don't have to spend time doing it ourselves. That's why so many join cults(they have all the answers), and we can just take their word for it.

  There are HARD questions for both the atheist, and believer. So don't fall for anyone who claims to have the answers to these HARD questions.

  I feel if we just look around and see the beauty in the created world, is that not a testimony to a superior Designer?

  I go for long walks in the woods and study nature 2 or more times a week, this always reasures me that God exsists.

  Of coarse there are many more reason why I believe, but that's another post some day.

  I feel that Science will one day confirm God's existence perhaps even before he makes his exsistence utterly undeniable to all living.

  If someone lived a trillion X longer than you, and had a billion X more reasoning ability would he come to the same conclusions as you?
• 

  flower

  Wow a lot of thought provoking and interesting replies..thanks all of you.

  I guess I knew there werent going to be any cold hard facts either way. Entertaining the possibility that God doesnt exist is very wierd to me. It doesnt feel right to me so I'm not going there right now...maybe months or years from now I will revisit this question but right now I need to go with what I feel and I feel love from God. I believe so much that He is real even though I dont have hardcopy proof. I've been able to make major changes within myself only after I opened myself to and started to get to know God recently. Maybe some think its coincidence but I dont think so.

  A question that I keep wondering now...is it possible for Athiests and Believers to co-exist? Is that why there is so often turmoil on this board despite the good it does? Being out of the org and free to be friends with or love or marry whomever we choose is so wonderful, but now we still have restrictions. What if you meet someone but the topic of religion doesnt come up until after you fall in love? Its not possible for an athiest and a believer to marry and have a meaningful relationship..is it? Can athiests and believers even be close friends? How do you all do it here? I've noticed that the athiests seem to be closer with one another than with others. I've heard them making mock of God and making jokes about believing in Him. I find that hurtful to me because I believe. So how do you respect others right to say and think what they want while not taking things personally and still being true to yourself? Does each side secretly look down on the other for believing what they do or do they truly respect that difference like they would if someone were just of another religion? I am accepting and respectuful of anyone of a different religion or those who chose to be of no religion. I respect their choice. But not believing in God at all is strange to me and seems to go beyond what I can accept of people I call close friends, but I feel like its wrong to judge people based on anything...even this. But how can I help it? Maybe once I learn more about things it will be easier.

  Does anyone have any comments on this?

  flower
• 

  Lari

  Flower, I too understand where you are coming from. I was a 3rd gen. JW. When my un-baptized brother told me he was atheist I freaked out. Could not comprehend how that was possible. He was raised knowing what I knew - how could he not believe?

  Now, over a year after leaving the Org., I wonder. For now I am fairly convinced that there is no God in the traditional sense. I do not believe there is a personal God. I suppose I would rather believe that there is no personal God than admit that there is - and that he doesn't give a Flying F*** for humanity.

  Maybe I'm just a primitive thinker but the ancient Multiple Deity answer makes more sense to me. If I consider that "god" as we know it is just a more developed species and that there is more than one of them - then things make sense. I can completely imagine a bunch of self-absorbed Gods playing around "up-there" and checking in with us only occasionally to stir the pot. One occasionally steps in and saves a child, the other gets bored and starts giving Son of Sam messages.

  Ok, maybe that's going a little far. Who knows.

  I will admit to becoming something of a Hedonist after realizing there is no god who cares what I do. But that is starting to wind down. Now that I am the one responsible for my future, hmm, maybe I ought to make something of myself.
• 

  flower

  Abbadon,

  Great post...thanks! you are very intelligent and have a way with words.

  I dont like the santa analogy much because santa offers nothing but 'things'. My belief in God is so different than a child believing that some man flies around with a bag full of toys. He offers me so much more. But I do understand what you are saying and I thank you for both your thought provoking posts.

  flower