Faith and the Bible (page 2)

PSacramento

Unneccessary to you, or unnessesary to humanity?

I can't speak for humanity.

Do you need the bible for you anymore, Psac? For your faith, I mean. I think you and I are on the same page here: The bible being a piece of evidence... many pieces really... of witness accounts to Christ and God. But it should not tie us down to the point where our faith is in, and we forget to go to Christ and 'worship in spirit'.

I don't need the bible anymore and I agree with you, but I still enjoy reading it.

N.drew, I'm not sure that I agree, but the gospels are a good place to learn about Christ - and it is where a lot of people learn about him (or from others who teach us who learned from people who learned from the bible, etc). But I think following Him - his teachings and deeds - is a better way to know Him; to walk shoulder to shoulder with him as you said.

I think that it is ALMOST impossible to get to Christ without the bible, but I also think that one needs to understand that the point of the bible IS to get to Christ.

LV101

PSac --- good point. great info in the bible about love, forgiveness, kindness -- difficult to apply and quite a challenge to follow the Christ.

It sound like that small voice is bitching at you. In psychology this is understood as the actual voice of a parent or authority figure that would nag you into doing what's right. It's a sign that a person still hasn't developed a mature perception of their world.

A mature person is aware of the limitations of their fellow man so there is no need of a "parental" voice to tell them to be patient, loving, forgiving. When you have assimilated the human condition you share with all humans then all these things become simple and emerge without the internal reminders or intervention of a parental voice.

And if for some reason you lose it on occasion and behave impatient, intolerant, unloving you are able to quickly achieve equilibrium without the guilt imposed by the internal sadistic bastard.

As long as you obey internal voices you have only made superficial changes and will most likely bitch and torture others thinking its the right thing to do.

tec

Scotoma, do you have a point about me or my post, lol? You aren't describing that 'small' voice, not for me anyway. As for the rest, often I do react out of love... but not always. That small voice often reminds me of what I do know, but want to ignore out of annoyance, or anger, or hurt, whatever.

Its calm and rational, when I'm not able to be.

I'm not sure how we got on the topic of small voice or intuition in the first place. It didn't really have anything to do with my post. No biggee... just not sure what your point was?

Peace,

Tammy

scotoma

Tammy,

I know you are directing your post to believers. My problem is that when you think you need some "spirit" to tell you what to do or inform you there is really no way to objectively verify the accuracy of your information. That's the problem with intuition. Intuition can be right but it is often wrong and you don't know until you start dealing with a particular decision whether it was good or bad.

As a JW I was always presented with these experiences where people made a decision after praying and it proved to be the right course. OTOH you don't hear the horrible consequences when people pray and it turns out wrong. Usually, the person is blamed for not REALLY listening to the "spirit".

What works for me is to gather as much information as the problem merits and time permits. Then I make a decision. It is usually adequate but sometimes failure results. There is no evidence that prayer adds anything to the situation. However, it may be a useful heuristic that opens a person up to more possibilities. Watiing, when you have to make a decision can be very useful to get things in perspective. Sometimes time alone will make the decision for you. Prayer and listening for inner cues may help a person pass time until their more rational nature takes over.

I use a technique where I set up an x and a y axis to represent two possible variables each with two polar opposite outcomes. I then fill in each quadrant with the likely outcomes. It works as well for me as a dialogue with a fabricated person that I imagine to be God.

I didn't mean to steer the thread. I continue to look for unambiguous and extraordinay proof for the extraordinay claims of any religion.

The subtlety of the spirit's voice is about as persuasive as Christ's invisible presense in 1914.

PSacramento

Scotoma does make a valid point.

While it is all fine and dandy to say "let the HS guide you", most people don't know how to distinguish the HS from some "other" spirit.

In that regard that bible, in p articular the NT, is very helpful.

It tells us that the HS is Love and that it leads by Love and doing what is right.

No spirit that tells you to hurt or harm or do "evil" unto others, is from God.

No spirit that tells you to do soemthing that you know is wrong or that will cause hurt, is from God.

Now, while one may at this point try to point out that "right and wrong" are subjective, I would remind that the spirit of God also teaches us to "do unto others as we would have them do unto us", and so unless we WANT others to do wrong unto us, then we are to do right.

Baring those with mental problems that truly don't understand the consequences of their actions, this "rule" tends to be a good plac eto start when it comes to trying to understand how the HS "speaks" to Us.

tec

You both make a good point. We do need to FIRST know the Holy Spirit, to know Christ and God, to be able to tell whether or not we are following them or ourselves, or someone else entirely.

For me, Christ shows mercy, forgiveness, love, patience and faith in His Father. If my 'intuition' were at odds with all of this (hurting someone, not forgiving someone, thinking I am better than someone), then I could not trust that. I would know that is not from God, or His Son.

Christ also said to love others as he loved us. (He said that to his disciples) That is easier for me to understand. Sometimes people don't care too much about themselves, so its hard to care too much about others. But if we love as HE loves, as he showed he loved his disciples, then we begin to have a better idea of how great the depth of that love and mercy actually should be.

Peace,

Tammy

myelaine

dear Tammy...

the scripture in john 8:24 says "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

do you believe this is true for you and that is why you put your faith in Jesus?

was it your "intuition" that told you that if you did not believe that Jesus was who He said He was, that you would die in your sins?

I ask you this because "intuitively" this dogmatic statement doesn't sound merciful, forgiving, loving or patient does it?(that is why many people balk at the teaching of it)

is it possible that you are mistaking your "intuition" or conscience for the convicting Holy Spirit of God?

love michelle

tec

Michelle, aren't we having this conversation on another thread?

Regardless, I put my faith in Christ because I love Him. Him, his teachings, his deeds... and His Father (as shown by Him)

I don't do it to save my life - my life belongs to him, whatever he chooses to do with it. I just do it because I love Him, and I follow Him for the same reason.

Everyone dies. Those who belong to Christ have their sins covered over, and so there is no judgment... they have life because He (the Life) gives it to them. Whatever He chooses to do with me (including grant me life), is up to Him. He knows my heart better than I do.

But God can show mercy to whomever He wants. Christ also made other statements about people who might enter the Kingdom, or be forgiven, or have mercy shown to them. So I don't say who is saved, who is condemned, who will die, who will have life. That is not my arena.

I'm not sure about the meaning behind the rest of what you said.

is it possible that you are mistaking your "intuition" or conscience for the convicting Holy Spirit of God?

Are you asking me if my 'intuition' is the Holy Spirit, or if what I think is the Holy Spirit is just my intuition?

Peace,

Tammy

myelaine

dear Tammy...

you said a lot but you didn't answer even one of these 4 questions that can be answered with a yes or a no.

this is really important, why don't you try again

love michelle

Faith and the Bible

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