Faith and the Bible (page 3)

Vanderhoven7

Hi Michelle,

Sometimes telling it like it is...is the most loving thing one can do. If the bridge is out, it just might be helpful to know about it.

I did answer your questions, Michelle... perhaps your questions aren't answered with a yes or no, black or white? I am not going to be dogmatic just because some church or group or bible or men/women tell me to be so, or that to be so is right. Mercy and love are more important than dogma. THAT I learned from Christ and God, and the bible.

You asked:

do you believe this is true for you and that is why you put your faith in Jesus?

I answered that question fully.

Since the rest of your questions seemed to be dependent upon a certain answer from the first, which you did not receive, then they do not apply.

Peace,

Tammy

J. Hofer

how people manage to make faith (basing ones life upon - to say the least - unproven, unprovable things) a virtue is beyond me. if you weren't indoctrinated from a young age that is.

myelaine

dear Tammy...

you didn't answer my question...because my question only required a yes or no answer.

you said: "I am not going to be dogmatic just because some church or group or bible or men/women tell me to be so, or that to be so is right. "...Jesus said it.

you said: "Mercy and love are more important than dogma. THAT I learned from Christ and God, and the bible" ...the assurance that you have eternal life in Jesus Christ was taught by the Saviour Himself and is a foundational teaching of the apostles...we can afford to be dogmatic about this fact or we can't say that we trust Him.

yes, ultimately your salvation is up to Him...but if you personally aren't sure, when He says that you CAN be sure, then you don't even trust Him entirely?...do you?...contradictory words coming out of you right?

look, I know how difficult it would be for you to turn around right now and face the truth...but He IS waiting for you and even calling you back from going down this road you are on...in His mercy and love He asks that all His disciples talk to you about these things that those who are part of the world wont.(thanks for the effort vander)

It is because of God's love and mercy that He sent His Son to SAVE us who would believe. It is easy to believe that Jesus is loving and merciful...but His love and mercy are tempered with justice...those who haven't heard the gospel will be shown mercy at His coming...those who have heard the gospel and don't believe it, have rejected it, justice means that they will be rejected too. I'm not making this up, that's why there are scriptures repeating this "theme" and that is why there are so many scriptures regarding Jesus' ATONING death and that we can count on it for our salvation. *sigh*...I love you, Tammy.

gut yomtov

michelle...xoxo

watersprout

If I had it in me I would post on this thread, but I'm having a bad day and i'm really missing my dog!

So all I will say is that I love ya Tammy, PSac and Nancy, you guys are lovely. I will feel better tomorrow and I will post on here. I like what's being posted. It lifted my spirits.

Peace

still thinking

myelaine I ask you this because "intuitively" this dogmatic statement doesn't sound merciful, forgiving, loving or patient does it?(that is why many people balk at the teaching of it)

Maybe Christ made these types of statements to convince people like YOU...because Love simply doesn't cut the mustard....its not a good enough reason to follow Christ...there needs to be a punishment for not following.

myelaine this is really important, why don't you try again

Important to who???? YOU....so what?

I think she answered you with this statment....

tec Everyone dies. Those who belong to Christ have their sins covered over, and so there is no judgment

But you didn't recognise the answer because it was in the positive and not in the negative...read it again myelaine...it might take you a few times to recognise it.

tec....I know what you mean about that small voice inside you...but do you mean that the small voice that tells you what is right is christ? Is he our conscience?

OnTheWayOut

Because you will be able to go to the source, yourself, and receive answers, understanding, gifts of the spirit, etc... all from the Holy Spirit, himself. You will learn from the Truth, and so you will know the Truth.

I really am not trying to stir things up, but there have been so many that have received answers, understanding, gifts of the spirit, etc.

Just to name a few: Joseph Smith, William Miller, C.T. Russell, L.Ron Hubbard. As much as you can say that they did not truly have it, others can say that of you or anyone.

still thinking

That is true OnTheWayOut....anyone can say anything, but no one has to believe them...so at the end of the day its up to us what we individually believe isn't it? I suppose the main similarity that all of the people you have mentioned have in common is that they started a 'religion' of sorts, and made lots of money in the process. To me Jesus didn't make any money, Gandhi made no money so following anything they teach by their example is not harmful.

take what you want and leave the rest applies in most situations, if it doesn't seem right...it probably isn't.

To me the only thing that tec seems to 'preach' (sorry tec, probably should have found a better word)...is to search for yourself and not put faith in what 'men' teach. I see no harm in that. Our reality belongs to us alone...no one else lives our life...we get to chose what we believe.

For her, it is the holy spirit that she believes directs her step...I cannot for the life of me understand why that should bother anyone that calls themselves a christian. Doesn't the bible teach that holy spirit will guide you.

If you have no faith at all...I have no problem with that either...each to his own.

myelaine

dear still thinking...

you said: "Gandhi made no money so following anything they teach by their example is not harmful."...so what about money!?!?!?

I have read that ghandi was a firm believer in the caste system...read up about that.

I have read that ghandi believed in reincarnation and karma...read up about that. there is no justice for someone like hitler...everything will be evened out in the end and he wont have to stand and pay for his murder of anyone...as hitler, the genocidal murderer.

I have read that ghandi believed that india should be a hindu nation...forgoing freedom of religion.

concluding...he didn't teach about love per se, but peaceful protest...his protest.

you said: "take what you want and leave the rest applies in most situations, if it doesn't seem right...it probably isn't."...indeed.

love michelle

tec

you didn't answer my question...because my question only required a yes or no answer.

YOU require a yes or no answer. Your question does not. In fact, your question was a two part question, requiring more than a yes or no answer. Do go back and look at it for yourself, if you don't believe me.

In fact, Still understood what I said perfectly - THANK YOU!

But if you think that I am going to condemn anyone by my words... then you are mistaken. Christ said a lot of things, none of which you (and others such as Perry) seem to incorporate into your dogma - at least on this topic.

you said: "I am not going to be dogmatic just because some church or group or bible or men/women tell me to be so, or that to be so is right. "...Jesus said it.

Like I said, He said a lot of things. Love and mercy being of utmost importance.

you said: "Mercy and love are more important than dogma. THAT I learned from Christ and God, and the bible" ...the assurance that you have eternal life in Jesus Christ was taught by the Saviour Himself and is a foundational teaching of the apostles...we can afford to be dogmatic about this fact or we can't say that we trust Him.

Yes, those who believe in and belong to Christ have eternal life in Him. Not arguing against it at all.

yes, ultimately your salvation is up to Him...but if you personally aren't sure, when He says that you CAN be sure, then you don't even trust Him entirely?...do you?...contradictory words coming out of you right?

I do trust Him entirely. The only contradiction is that you don't understand me. Which is fine. You don't have to.

look, I know how difficult it would be for you to turn around right now and face the truth...but He IS waiting for you and even calling you back from going down this road you are on...in His mercy and love He asks that all His disciples talk to you about these things that those who are part of the world wont.(thanks for the effort vander)

Why would it be difficult?

May I ask how he asks you (as one of his disciples)? Do you hear him, in spirit? Or do you hear the gospel as taught by men, and the bible as interpreted by men, and go on those things? Just curious.

It is because of God's love and mercy that He sent His Son to SAVE us who would believe. It is easy to believe that Jesus is loving and merciful...but His love and mercy are tempered with justice...those who haven't heard the gospel will be shown mercy at His coming...those who have heard the gospel and don't believe it, have rejected it, justice means that they will be rejected too. I'm not making this up, that's why there are scriptures repeating this "theme" and that is why there are so many scriptures regarding Jesus' ATONING death and that we can count on it for our salvation. *sigh*...I love you, Tammy.

What gospel? The one that Christ taught? Or any one of the many versions that men teach falsely?

Rejecting someone's version of Christ is not rejecting Christ himself. I assume you reject the JW version of Christ? Also the Westboro Baptist version?

So you can understand the difference.

A lot of people, even though they have heard something of the gospel, have never known Christ through it, TO reject Him. They are just rejecting someone's false version of Him. That's a good thing, yes? So perhaps you should consider that this is why people search - and become lost due to all the muddied waters. Perhaps you should be a little more careful about slinging around the accusation that those who are searching are following the spirit of the anti-christ.

Peace,

Tammy

Faith and the Bible

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