by whereami 161 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
well i could consider the likes of you incapable of reason and logic too u know
Back on topic…and a different take...
The question I have is: IF morality comes from God how does all of humanity come to know it and agree on it?
A billion+ Christians will say we learn morality from the Bible.
A billion+ Muslims will say we learn morality from the Quran.
But the Bible and Quran are completely different books with different beliefs and morals. So if morals come from God, how has he given that common message to all of humankind? Using the Quran and the Bible causes billions of people to be in disagreement on morality.
Or…is it that one billion+ group of people is wrong in their choice of moral compass? Which one: Christians or Muslims?
or wonder why we haven't evolved into angels by now.
Hmmm interesting concept! Perhaps they evolved from a different branch.
I think the Quran and the Bible are too similiar for a good comparison in this area.
Maybe comparing the Bible with certain Pagan beliefs. Both spawned warlike believers who also had mandates against murder--which seems contradictory. However if we look at the moral codes for sexuality, we can find a lot of interesting differences.
NC
I think the Quran and the Bible are too similiar for a good comparison in this area.
Muslims don't believe Jesus was the son of God. They don't believe in original sin. The Quran is the word of God (Allah) and the Bible is not. Muslims believe that Allah is the source of good and evil and that his will is supreme. Allah is capricious - whatever he does is right simply because he did it, no matter what the ethics of it.
Edit to add: That's one thing I wish had a larger representation here on JWN - Muslims. Whenever belief vs non-belief type discussions arise the belief side is only from the Christian viewpoint. I find it revealing that a Christian says they "know" God through Christ. Yet, a Muslim will say they "know" God through Muhammed. Same with the morality discussion....if it comes from God then which side? Eastern or Western hemisphere?
But the basics are there. Murder, theft, adultery, fornication etc. And such beliefs led both sets of believers to bloody acts and suppression. Women are crap. But if we look at some pagan groups, we find women have an elevated standing, and sometimes THEY are the intermediaries. In those cultures, there is no stigman to unwed pregnancy, sex etc. Of course, some go another way and women are highly suppressed. So that smells of might makes right, and the fact that humans keep reverting to such makes me believe that morals dont come from some external source, but are often an expression of our own selfish desires.
NC
Wow I have been out at work folowed by football coaching and I don't know where to start.
My challenge still stands though - Please tell me a moral statement that isn't predicated on the well being of conscious creatures.
Yes PSac the idea of "well being" is based on Sam Harris' book The Moral Landscape.
(bioflex please stop talking about evolution you are off topic and your ignorance of the subject is deeply embarassing. I can suggest some excellent books if you are interested)
The view that we all have an innate morality built into us I think can be surmised as thus. We all know something, but nobody can agree on exactly what it is that we know, merely that we all know it, and furthermore it can be agreed that some people are ignoring what it is that they know (but we can't say exactly what it is that they know that they are ignoring...knowingly), but it's obvious some people are ignoring it, but it's less obvious who is ignoring it and exactly when they are ignoring whatever obvious thing they are ignoring, but we all know it...whatever it is. Objective morality is just as clear as that.
Sound like a quote from Donald Rumsfeld
I recently read about a tribe in my Antropology class (can't remember the name, but I better find it soon for the exam), anyway, they have a very strict taboo against sex the first year after having a baby. They would consider sex before that year was up as shocking and immoral. Why?
Well they eat an very low protein diet. Infants really need protien their first 2 years to help their survival. So in this groups history they found that when babies were born too close and weaned too early, they often died. They didn't understand about protein. They didn't have birth control. So the natural option became to simply not have sex for one year after giving birth. This spaced the children and gave them a much better chance at survival.
Their morals are based on their diet! With globalization, they may come to learn about protein and supplement their diets. They may start using modern birth control methods and space their children that way. Will the taboo disappear? Probably not right away. So these people may for years to come consider sex within a year of birth to be immoral, even though the original reason for practicing abstinence is long gone. That will be their moral code. Maybe they would think the punishment for breaking the taboo was dead children.
NC
