There is No Morality Without God (page 12)

JonathanH

I agree 100% cofty, it's insane to say that we are worse off now morally than we were a hundred years ago. Isn't it terrible how blacks and women have rights now, or how it's frowned upon to tar and feather homosexuals, that racism is taboo rather than racial tolerance, so on and so forth. The world was only a better place for straight white men. Everyone else I'm pretty sure would rather live today than a hundred years ago.

NewChapter

Isn't it terrible how blacks and women have rights now, or how it's frowned upon to tar and feather homosexuals, that racism is taboo rather than racial tolerance, so on and so forth. The world was only a better place for straight white men. Everyone else I'm pretty sure would rather live today than a hundred years ago

hear hear I get so irritated when I hear this crap about the good old daze. I recently pointed out to someone that the days may have been good for HIM, but let me tell him how the days were for ME. I was a girl in the 70's and a teen in the 80's. That's not that long ago, but girls were subjected to such repression by all these moral people that stories are simply mundane. It was just a given---the way things were. We accepted treatment that we would not tolerate for our daughters---yet they want us to go BACK. Ugh. Don't get me started. LOL

jay88

Hate to sound like a groupie, but the last couple pages have been, phenomenal.

Twitch

I'll second that

Skycake is more relevant to this thread actually lol

PSacramento

The question I have is: IF morality comes from God how does all of humanity come to know it and agree on it?

A billion+ Christians will say we learn morality from the Bible.
A billion+ Muslims will say we learn morality from the Quran.

But the Bible and Quran are completely different books with different beliefs and morals. So if morals come from God, how has he given that common message to all of humankind? Using the Quran and the Bible causes billions of people to be in disagreement on morality.

Or…is it that one billion+ group of people is wrong in their choice of moral compass? Which one: Christians or Muslims?

Absolute morality comes from God, relative or subjective morality is man interpreting morals to his "well being".

The bible is a collection of books of various authors and various generes, regadless of inspritation and authority, that is what it is.

The Koran is NOT like that, it is bacially the authoritive writings of ONE man and HIS view on things.

Long before either existed there were morals being passed down via oral tradtions, traditions far older than the hebrew one.

PSacramento

Found this quote from Harris:

Morality must relate, at some level, to the well-being of conscious creatures. If there are more and less effective ways for us to seek happiness and to avoid misery in this world—and there clearly are—then there are right and wrong answers to questions of morality.

Human well-being is not a random phenomenon. It depends on many factors—ranging from genetics and neurobiology to sociology and economics. But, clearly, there are scientific truths to be known about how we can flourish in this world. Wherever we can have an impact on the well-being of others, questions of morality apply.
Morality. if it is subject to "well being" and "happiness" is subjective and as such, there can't be an absolute moral.
The well being and happieness of who? the individual? the group? a societ?
Roman expanision was great for roman well being and happiness, did that make it moral?

Vanderhoven7

Science cannot logically make the leap from what is to what ought to be. Any universal absolute values (so-called) and universal absolute morals developed from them are not objectively the product of a random chance world that exists without any reference to purpose.

Yes people can make up complex moral codes and even consider themselves moral to the extent that they follow them. And others, working with different moral codes, are just as moral when they obey their own opposing moral conclusions. Who is to say, you are immoral for killing your unwanted pre-born baby? Who is to say you are immoral for not loving some imaginary god with all your heart; just other ignorant people with differing values and morals. There are no ultimate rules in the universe, only people who create and or enforce them.

There are no ultimate rules, just as there is no ultimate justice in the universe.

And I quote:

There is no Good, there is no Bad;

These be the whims of mortal will:

What works me weal that call I "good,"

What harms and hurts I hold as "ill:'

They change with place, they shift with race;

And, in the veriest span of Time,

Each Vice has won a Virtue's crown;

All good was banned as Sin or Crime:

bioflex

bioflex please stop talking about evolution you are off topic and your ignorance of the subject is deeply embarassing. I can suggest some excellent books if you are interested)

@cofty : i guess i now realize where the problem lies now, you claim i am ignorant about evolution but let me ask you, are you well educated about the bible?i could also suggest you some books and videos. Just what makes you think the books you want to suggest to me are spot on accurate? if there is anything i have learnt in this discussion its that many scientists have their doubts about evolution so what makes to think your sources are credible?.

I dont want to go off topic here so dont push me. and dont think yourself highly than me because you think you are right. After all you do realize that in science you have to prove something before it is regarded as credible and none of your evolution books can boldly prove all it states.

NewChapter

There is no Good, there is no Bad;

These be the whims of mortal will:

What works me weal that call I "good,"

What harms and hurts I hold as "ill:'

They change with place, they shift with race;

And, in the veriest span of Time,

Each Vice has won a Virtue's crown;

I LOVE THIS!!

All good was banned as Sin or Crime:

NewChapter

Bioflex--everyone here is very familiar with the bible.

After all you do realize that in science you have to prove something before it is regarded as credible and none of your evolution books can boldly prove all it states

This statement is very wrong and is the opposite of the scientific method. Science seeks to DISPROVE, not prove. Would you like me to start and evolution thread for you? We can discuss all these ideas there.

NC

There is No Morality Without God

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