Christians Please Explain

by AK - Jeff 134 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  botchtowersociety

  For every Einstein or John Nash or Mark Twain or Stephen Hawking that has come along, there are likely a thousand who have been buried in the morass of foolish 'faith and belief' and have put aside the wonderful gifts they could have used in their brains to aid our species - to rid us of cancer, find a cure for malaria, or a mathematical formula that unlocks technology that could aid our planet and it's life.

  Do you realize how many of the great thinkers, scientists, artists, writers, philosophers and inventors of history have held some form of spiritual faith?

  These things aren't mutually exclusive.

  And what Mary said. Well said, Mary.
• 

  botchtowersociety

  Prove that Christianity, or whatever religion you pick, has not been responsible for more bloodshed and war than any other social force in history.

  Well, that is one that is quantifiable, and easy to prove. Psac provided a source:

  If you want numbers and stats, you can read "the irrational atheist" by Vox Day.

  Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his views, he does show STATS and Numbers.

  http://www.miller-mccune.com/culture/myth-of-the-modern-religious-war-34617/

  To determine whether any of these authors are on the right track, my students and I looked at Kalevi J. Holsti’s 1991 book Peace and War: Armed Conflicts and International Order, 1648-1989. Holsti analyzes all international conflicts over the last several centuries, classifying the issues of conflict.

  In looking at religious wars in Holsti’s time frame, we coded all cases involving any religious component, from unification and irridenta to protecting religious confreres, and identified 16 religious wars.

  More than half of them were between the Ottoman Empire and European nations (1600s-1800s) over protecting Christian pilgrims on the way to the sites in the Holy Land. These were one-way disputes, with the European Christian country pursuing claims while Turkey didn’t seem to have a problem with the status quo. For those since World War II (India-Pakistan, Israel-Arab, Biafra-Nigeria and Syria-Lebanon), none, according to Holsti, had religion as the primary rationale for fighting, even if the wars were advertised as such.

  To establish a baseline for comparing religious conflicts with other reasons why countries fight, we gathered information on three additional issues where Holsti collects data: real estate (territorial disputes), riches (battles over resources), and regimes (where one country attempts to replace another country’s government with one it prefers). Like the religion analysis, this involved bundling several of Holsti’s issues under a broader category for each issue of conflict, since many if not most wars have multiple issues. The results are listed below:

  
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  THE GLADIATOR

  To remain calm and sane in a mixed society, I think we have to reach a point where we accept that people are entitled to their faith and beliefs, even if we think they are deluded. Provided they behave in reasonable way and show love to others it doesn’t really matter what people choose to believe.

  Even non-religious people have illusions, delusions and crutches that they lean on. If someone has found something that gets them through the night, its ok with me.
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  N.drew

  Christians are they that learn from Jesus. "Christainity" is religion. Anarchy is, in my opinion, the other side of the coin of governments will never stop fighting each other. If Jesus will be listened to more it is the CURE. Jesus, I believe, means the BIG PICTURE. In fact, can you prove that the world would still exist if it were not for Jesus? God is not dead, religion is dead. Jesus does not cause death, religion causes death.

  A true Christian should be against religion. A true Christian should not be against government, because government should EVOLVE. But the argument causes Armageddon which is not war, it means decision.
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  Ding

  Jeff,

  One piece of evidence is the existence of the universe. If the atheistic hypothesis is correct, why does anything exist at all instead of nothing? The Big Bang was then a massive explosion that occurred apart from the physical laws of our current universe yet produced the incredible order we see.

  These facts indicate to me that the atheistic hypothesis actually requires more faith than the theistic one.

  There is also the issue of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. If in fact it happened, it authenticates the existence of God and the teachings and claims of Jesus. The disciples were in a position to know (not guess) whether this actually occurred or whether they made the story up. They went to horrific deaths without recanting their testimony.

  This is just a very short and much simplified version of a couple of arguments that have been made over the millennia. You don't have to accept them, of course, but they are not irrational.
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  tec

  Well, that conversation is as disgusting and despicable to me as it is to you, AK Jeff. For me, because it tells such lies about God and His Son... and those lies are taught as truths every day. Those lies help to turn people away from God. God is sending good people to burn for all eternity in hell? I think they're following and worshipping the other guy.

  (And THAT, Michelle, is the 'gospel' that most people reject. They don't know the Truth to reject Him.)

  Peace,

  Tammy
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  NCC-1701

  At the risk of sounding like an a**hole or extreme.

  I am a Christian who believes that Hell exists. However, believing in Hell and desiring that "some" people should go there are not the same.

  I personally do not hold to a Universalist postion with regards to the afterlife. I am a believer in missions and I believe Jesus was and is also. I find it difficult to see the necessity of missions to step out into the unkown to share a message deemed so vital, at the risk of much personal harm, if everyone in the world will enjoy the same heavenly destination because it doesn't matter how someone lived this life. I personally don't know any missionaries who hold to a universalist belief.

  I also see in scripture some descriptions of hell that sound horrendous. And many of these descriptions come from Jesus. In my experience, the validity of the message has a lot do with the validity of the messenger.

  I wish there were no Hell. But I don't have the "big picture" that God has. I'm not above correction on these matters, I just hope if needed I'll be willing.
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  cofty

  Jeff I agree with you 100%

  These people were discussing the most repugnant lie that religion ever dreamed up. The idea that extreme eternal torture awaits those who reject the superstitious rantings of Bronze Age desert dwelling holy men is jaw dropping. This is the 21st Century FFS.

  Religion spoils everything - Christopher Hitchens
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  N.drew

  How do we know that the spiritual imaginations of ancient people are not a way to desrcibe THE END?

  For instince "hell" is the burning of The Earth in a total holocaust?

  And their religious perspective let's say is hoping that it is not the "good"

  people who must live in it, but the "bad" people who actually, in someone's opinion (but not mine)

  deserve it.
• 

  botchtowersociety

  Religion spoils everything - Christopher Hitchens

  Its humorous how on threads like these atheists often end up quoting Dawkins or Hitchens and so on. It isn't much different than a biblethumper who has to add a Bible text to every post. It's like an atheist canon or something. Really there isn't much of a difference between fundies when it comes to intolerance. They are more alike than they are different, it seems to me.