by TimothyT 117 Replies latest watchtower bible
JD - I am wondering if you have ever read the bible without Watchtower glasses?
The bible does actuall specify a separation between a smaller flock of king priests in heaven and a innumerable crowd on earth
Really? The Great Crowd are in heaven - in the "naos".
Back on topic, the bible is thoroughly homophobic. Why should that surprise anybody?
The bible also promotes slavery, forced-marriage and infanticide. As a moral guide it is worthless.
JD - I am wondering if you have ever read the bible without Watchtower glasses?
I have/am. Witnesses are not the only ones who believe in this separation. And the reason is because of you read it literally it's clearly legitimate. This separation is the reason for the difference between 1thess and 2thess. In 1st he's talking about the nearness of their being taken to heaven, but in the second he's talking about the end far off in the future for everyone who doesn't ascend. There are a great many indications of this separation regardless of what JWs say about it.
Dont fall into the same mistaken logic they use of discrediting the statement/belief because they happen to share it. Where the bible is concerned, if taken literally as it says, they aren't wrong on everything. But they are wrong enough to be killing people and protecting pedos amongst many other issues.
Dont fall into the same mistaken logic they use of discrediting the statement/belief because they happen to share it.
I didn't. I gave you the greek word naos for where the "Great Crowd" are. Do some research on it and we can discuss it on another thread if you want.
The thread topic is on homosexuality which is a classic example of secular vs religious ethics. Superstitious people oppose homosexuality because their holy books condemn it. Rational people think through the consequences and realise that it is hurting nobody.
I checked it out and the word naos appears never to refer to the crowd or be translated as great crowd or crowd. its translated as temple or used in another word for temple guardian.
The word used for crowd or multitude in revelation 7:9 is Ochlos, from der. Of 2192 (a vehicle); a disorganized throng (as borne along); by impl. The rabble; by extens. A class of people; fig. A riot... (1.) Used frequently in the four gospels and acts; elsewhere only in rev 7:9; 17:15; 19:1, 6; (2.) it denotes (2a) a crowd or multitude of persons; a throng (2b) often in the plural (2c) with 'polus', "much" or "great" it signifies (2c1) a great multitude (2c2) the common people (2c3) in jn 12:9, 'the people' stands in contrast with their leaders."
so not only is it not naos, but it is a word merely signifying a numerous group of people, often disorgaized. Which, in my opinion, further emphasizes the realy probability that the religions are traps and the disorganized multitude that isn't a part of them are the ones actually doing what we are supposed to.
All the best to you, Timothy T. If you're in a relationship with someone of the same sex, I hope you're happy together.
When I was a JW teenager I was fairly homophobic. Now that I'm older, and have actually listened and read what gay people say about their sexuality, I've come to realize that it's just the way they are - it isn't 'good' or 'bad'. Homosexuality is a natural preference that is simply not as common as heterosexuality.
Rational people think through the consequences and realise that it is hurting nobody
Don't let fundamentalists dictate how you can or cannot live your life.
I have not had time to read the Thread, so this may have been said. But responding to the Thread Title :
Why should you have to justify the way you are ?
It's like saying is being a white, English-born male ever justifiable, it is simply not my choice, I don't have to justify it, it is the way I am. ( Which means I can't dance and have no dress sense LOL).
As to the supposed condemnation of homosexuality in the Bible, I have considered the original words, (as we have them), fully in their context of time and usage etc.
It is my considered opinion that the Bible does not condemn in any way someone who is in that minority of being homosexual. It simply condemns those who practice what the writer considered false religion.
Prove me wrong, Homophobes.
Timothy T,
Like Phizzy, I quit caring what an old book written by long dead men says a long time ago. In fact, I stopped caring about what the bible said about gays when I was still an elder. But you seem to still be under its control; I respect that.
What I know is that what consenting adults do in private never has and never will be anyone else's business. It is my hope that you can one day reach that understanding and that the Dark Lords and the old scrolls written for a different world and for a different reason no longer control you.
The problem with anyone who is looking at whether the bible may provide divine insight and guidance for how to live is that straight away, you are assuming that it might and that immediately clouds people's common sense and judgement.
Read the bible for what it is: an old book written to justify inhuman treatment of others from an age of ignorance and brutality.
If there is any wisdom or common sense then it is more down to coincidence and nothing that we didn't already know. The fact that there is so much obvious idiotic nonsense in those pages means it's worthless as any sort of guidebook on how to live.
If life was an Ikea wardrobe then the Bible would be the most useless piece of crap instruction for how to assemble it.
Anyone who imagines that what it says about homosexuals is relevant, one way or the other, is deluding themselves.
Read it because you like the stories of giant boats full of animals or giant fish swallowing people or people walking to and from boats or stone age people building giant towers into space (3 storeys tops) or multiple talking animals or fauna. But to guide your life or justify condemning other people for theirs? Get real.
Jd you are officially clueless, were you ever a JW?
Well I quoted James strong from his concordance. Vines dictionary and Greens interlinear bible all agree and confirm with one another. So your outnumbered by some very educated individuals, regardless of my opinion.
also yes I was a JW. They cost me a great deal in my life including a relationship with a loved one who lost their life.
