An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 72)

N.drew

Eaht do noodles have to do with anything? Kung Foo Panda! Noodles was the business. The father's business.

AK - Jeff

God answers the prayers of those who belong to Him. He is not obligated to answer any other prayers, as he has not promised to answer any other prayers. Before someone jumps on the 'choosiness' of this, those who belong to Him (through His Son) would have His spirit. Their prayers should then come from a place of trust and love, for Him and for their fellow man.

Is there any 'evidence' for this assertion then? Or shall we lay it upon the pile of previous assertions made without logical merit, and we'll get to it later? [wink]

As a fine comedian once stated: "You can't fix stupid."

'Nuff said. The circular reason has fully convinced me that I have thrown enough pearls before swine [to quote one of the good theists here from before, who was quoting another unknown author inspired by invisible people whom he can't prove exist].

Theist - just take a seat over there - we will be with you soon.

Jeff

AGuest

If ONLY everything was as easy as AGuest, tec, N.drew make it out to be.

It could be, dear Uber (again, peace to you!)... if man didn't get in the way...

Did someone send out food this morning to Somalia? What a moronic question. Where can I drop off the food?

How 'bout the VALUE of your meal... through, say, Unicef (that's who's leading the cause right now). The Red Cross? "StopHungerNow.org"? C'mon, use a little imagination... and initiative...

Is there a drop off center in the rural areas of the world, and some of the urban where that day it would be sent to the victims of suffering?

In some places, yes, in some places, no. But Unicef is apparently planning to get some into Somalia...

And does it reach all across the world,

Unicef? My understanding is yes. As does the Red Cross... the Children's Fund... and many others...

to the people who are hungry in our own streets? No.

Well, now would be on you, wouldn't it, to just, say, open your front door and go out IN your own street... and feed someone. I think sending it to Unicef, etc., and waiting for them to send it all the way back to your street... when you could just as easily get there... and sooner... is a huge waste. Of time AND money. Why, it would probably take quadruple the funds in processing, shipping, and other admin fees... than what it cost YOU for the meal to begin with. I could be wrong, though. I mean, YOU might dine on[melba] toast and beluga caviar for breakfast, so...

Are people financially able to feed everyone on Earth?

Absolutely!! Heck, we feed COWS and PIGS... and dogs and cats... and... and... and... don't we? Surely, if we can feed beasts we can feed PEOPLE. Just some of the CORN and other grain that we feed [domestic] beasts... just so that we can eat THEM... could feed people. Where've YOU been, dear one?

Are there people that are? Yes. Do they? No. Who allows this to happen?

THEY allow it, dear one. Just like you are responsible for what YOU do/don't do... they are responsible for what THEY do/don't do. But don't sell them off so fast: my experience is that just like their are very "giving" poor people, there are very "giving" rich people. However, just like there are very "stingy" rich people... there are VERY "stingy" poor people.

Not us, not me, I have no power of what Trump, Gates, and previously Jobs do/did with their money.

No one ever said you did. Again, you are responsible for you. And they, for themselves. God, however, is not responsible for the actions... or inactions... of ANY of us.

Who allows it?

Please... see above. "We" do. Individually.

Well seeing as how you believe in God, it must be God, for who has absolute power over everyone? GOD.

You mean, the God that you DON'T believe in? How can that BE? How can someone who doesn't exist BE responsible? And if He DOESN'T exist, then who do YOU suggest IS responsible? Your position makes NO sense, dear one. If God IS responsible... then He MUST exist. Which you apparently deny. If He doesn't exist, then He CAN'T be responsible... and, therefore, someone else MUST be. WHO? YOU. And me.

Again, peace to you, truly!

A slave of Christ,

SA

jay88

Poops: we just wonder how you who "do believe" reconcile it

..........................

Concise, brillant and on the money!

If the OP's statement was presented in this manner, perhaps poster's comments would be easier to understand.

N.drew

Thank you AGuest. Perfect logic. Complainers, stop putting the blame on nothing. When I get blamed for something, I tend to want to fix it and I usually try to fix it. But if the world keeps putting the blame away, what will fix it?

Nobody asked what I mean.....

AGuest

I have thrown enough pearls before swine

Uh-uh, dear Jeff (again, peace to you!), won't work: we tossed REAL pearls out to you. Don't try and throw back some fake, man-made, "cultured" stuff. Not the same quality. But, hey, wanna toss back some of what was thrown your way? G'head... toss 'em, love! (SA holds cupped hands out). I will GLADLY take them back - 'cause I know the value of REAL pearls (versus that fake stuff)... even one small one.

Peace!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

TheUbermensch

I fully agree Jeff. There isn't much more information I can provide to people who don't even consider it a possibility. The entire conversation has been completely fruitless because of 3 reasons.

1. Rejection of logic.

2. Circular reasoning.

3. Twisting of official religious literature, and then leaving it behind when it doesn't suit the way they see God.

If there is no formality, and accepted basis, the premise can never be argued. Especially since reasons for believing in God are

1. Just the fact that the Bible exists.

2. Some personal experience which can never be authenticated.

Besides that, no evidence can be given for the existence of any sort of God.

Answers were actually given.

I believe every answer from every theist was something along the lines of

"We are starving our children" or "We allow it to happen."

Of course it is physically impossible for any of us, even altogether as an entire human race, to feed the hungry and poor throughout the world. There will always be suffering.

In fact, funnily enough, we can blame a lot on God without assuming that he stands by and watches it all occur.

I believe someone stated something along the lines of

"We spend billions on war, but not on medical treatment"

Of course we don't have any cures for the more awful diseases (i.e. cancer, AIDS) but how many priests, or CO, or anyone else who devotes their life to their religion had potential to find the cure to one of these diseases, or find a solution to the problem of world hunger? We'll never know.

Of course, to blame it on human beings is circular reasoning. We are imperfect beings made in the image of a perfect God, we make imperfect decisions, and one of them might be to let people starve. But then again, God is perfect, he could help them anytime, right? Why doesn't he? Because we can't? I don't really understand that one.

I feel this discussion (a very intriguing topic for debate) has been greatly disappointing and disheartening simply because of absolute narrowmindedness. It's truly a pity.

poopsiecakes

for Shelby :)

I can only speak for myself here, but I'm pretty sure that we all believed - quite vehemently too. We either grew up believing or were presented with some kind of 'evidence' that made God real. In my case, once I started picking apart beliefs that I had fought tooth and nail to try and 'prove' were true, I realized that most of my beliefs held no water in the holey bucket. The plugs were now gone and SPLASH they all poured out on the ground at my feet, which was very uncomfortable. I couldn't and wouldn't plug up that bucket again with imaginary 'facts' because I really don't like wet feet. So I think on this board, with all of our common background that brings us together, it's difficult to understand how some of you unplugged the bucket and then plugged it right back up again with different 'proof' that still doesn't amount to real proof at all and still deal with the same bucket of holes. And it's not like reverse preaching - it's a total incomprehension based on similar life experiences. How does one stop pulling at the thread that unravels the whole tapestry?

TheUbermensch

AGuest, I have to assume your beliefs to show you your own ideas. It's simply for the sake of the argument, didn't I say "Since you believe in God it must be God"? It's not that hard to understand....

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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