An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 74)

tec

Is there any 'evidence' for this assertion then? Or shall we lay it upon the pile of previous assertions made without logical merit, and we'll get to it later? [wink]

Sure there is, Jeff. "You may ask my father for anything in my name, and you will have it." Christ was speaking to those who belong to Him, given to Him by his Father. It's not proof, but it is evidence. So it is another option... in addition to your three, and the other one I offered.

If a premise is faulty to begin with, then what about the options given by that premise?

Of course it is physically impossible for any of us, even altogether as an entire human race, to feed the hungry and poor throughout the world.

It absolutely is possible. We have the means and we have the finances (as a race).

Uber or Jeff (or anyone else, really)... Can a premise be logical if it makes a judgment while refusing to consider all the variables?

didn't I say "Since you believe in God it must be God"? It's not that hard to understand....

No, but apparently it is too hard for you to understand the answer being given to you.

Peace,

Tammy

AGuest

Okay, this, and I, too, am off to dear OUTLAWS' (and Poopsies' - peace to you all!)

There isn't much more information I can provide to people who don't even consider it a possibility.

Can you condescend to see, dear Uber (again, peace to you!)... that is exactly "our" position, as well? That it is YOU who won't even consider the possibility [of what we share with you]?

to blame it on human beings is circular reasoning. We are imperfect beings made in the image of a perfect God, we make imperfect decisions, and one of them might be to let people starve. But then again, God is perfect, he could help them anytime, right? Why doesn't he? Because we can't? I don't really understand that one.

From where did you get such reasoning? Certainly not from me: we are NOT made in God's image... perfect or otherwise. You have never seen where I have posted that we are. We ARE imperfect, though, yes... and that's what leads us to let people starve, particularly our enemies. However, my Lord is recorded to say that we to LOVE ours enemies (and so, feed them, if they are hungry!)... because by DOING so... we PROVE ourselves sons of God. God IS perfect... and so in HIS perfection has directed US as to how we are to treat our fellowman: as HE would. It is not up to HIM, therefore, to show love to OUR fellowman FOR us - it is up to each one of US to do so. He DOESN'T... because He has given that CHARGE... to US. Surely, THAT isn't that hard to understand... is it?

Oh, and I can't see where you got it from dear tec or N.drew (peace to you, both!), either. From others who PROFESS to be "christian", perhaps... but not the Body of Christ (excluding the inexperienced or imposter)...

I feel this discussion (a very intriguing topic for debate) has been greatly disappointing and disheartening simply because of absolute narrowmindedness. It's truly a pity.

Narrowmindedness on who's part? YOU are UNWILLING to accept what we share, even the POSSIBILITY. How many here have said, "Nope, no way, couldn't happen, you're delusional, making it up, can't be, isn't real"... and all manner of narrowmindedness?

didn't I say "Since you believe in God it must be God"? It's not that hard to understand....

You did. And I said... "I believe in God, but it's NOT God" and "How can YOU believe it IS God... when you don't believe there IS [a] God?" That, too, shouldn't be hard to understand. Apparently, though...

it's difficult to understand how some of you unplugged the bucket and then plugged it right back up again with different 'proof' that still doesn't amount to real proof at all and still deal with the same bucket of holes.

Please bear with me here, dear Poopsie (again, peace to you!) and I will try to explain. It's actually rather simple: you believe the "buckets" are the same. They are not. True, we unplugged the "bucket" of the WTBTS... and that led to unplugging the "bucket" of religion. Both buckets were CLAIMING, however, to hold "water" from a pristeen "lake." They didn't/don't, but held putrid water from a dying pond. Had to let that go. Doesn't mean, however, that there is NO pure water - there truly IS.

The wonderful thing is that it's not IN a "bucket", at all! It's not confined to such a... ummmm... tiny "cistern." It is in CHRIST... the "cistern" from whom PURE, CLEAN water flows. LIVING water... which flows out of HIS inward parts. Once one stops drinking from these BUCKETS... and start drinking from HIM... one understands the difference between the contents of both: it's the WATER, dear one.

How does one stop pulling at the thread that unravels the whole tapestry?

Well, if it's a cheap, knock-off of the genuine article... poorly constructed by untrained and experienced novices on mechanical looms that are improperly maintained... well... it will HAVE threads. Which can be... irritating, yes. I know when I see a thread I want to pull it. And sometimes when I do, the whole thing starts unravelling, yes. Especially if it's cheap.

If it's THE REAL DEAL, though... the GENUINE article... say, the highest quality silk fabric... weaved by experienced, masterful, expert hands... on looms constructed out of quality wood and regularly maintained so that they have been producing quality tapestries for millenia... you'll find no threads, dear one. A quality tapestry just isn't made that way - it would be rejected and undone so as to be redone (or stolen and "sold" perhaps to someone who will try to pass it off as quality and try to sell it for more than it's worth).

That is the difference between what we USED to have (cheap, knock-off faith in a cheap knock-off god)... and what we possess now: genuine faith... in the genuine article: the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob... and Father of our Lord, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, His Son... JAHESHUA, His Chosen One.

There is a BIG difference, dear one... between the real... and the fake... the bucket(s) and the water in THEM... and the cistern and the water in IT.

I hope this helps, truly. Yes, our faith, beliefs, and God may be different than most... but they are real and true.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

AGuest

no evidence or proof

No phone call... yet...

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

SA

Qcmbr

what do you need a phone call for?

AGuest

You asked for evidence, dear Q (again, peace to you!). Surely, you don't expect it to come through an Internet site? I mean, I could POST an experience, sure... but then you would only clamor that YOU didn't see/hear/feel/smell/taste it... and so it really isn't "evidence" to YOU. Right? Sooooo...

Again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SA... who wonders if we're having fun NOW...

Twitch

Who or what determines whether a god is fake or real?

AGuest

Perhaps you can tell us, dear Twitch (peace to you!), because I have doubts that you would believe anything we offered on the subject.

Peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

tec

Q - evidence has been offered. Not proof, but evidence. That you reject it is completely up to, and on, you. Note, however, that your 'side' offers no proof of its position either (on the three choices that Jeff presented).

Peace,

Tammy

undercover

: "your 'side' offers no proof of its position either"

extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Disbelief in those claims does not require evidence, or proof, in opposition.

In other words, if one says there's a god, they have to prove it. Those who do not believe do not have to prove there isn't one.

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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