What I hate is people using stories to manipulate other people.
Do you hate God
by Star tiger 225 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
ziddina
"Do you know if there is an older deity than these? Could it be Indian? The mother godess of nature? ..." Still Thinking
You're closest to the tru - er, reality, with the "mother goddess" guess...
Look up the "Berekhat Ram" figurine, found, ironically, in Israel!!!
That figurine is SO old, it predates Homo sapiens!!!
That is, AT LEAST 232,000 years old, and quite possibly as old as 700,000+ years...
Mind-boggling.... And that it was most likely made by Homo Erectus - not Homo sapiens...!!!
Here are a couple of links...
http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/prehistoric/venus-of-berekhat-ram.htm
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=A6C649A54F9882F6E8E99426FCE92903.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=76619 [that's an abstract - summation of a scientific paper that one must purchase to read - about the Berekhat Ram figurine. If one looks at the last sentence in the abstract, you'll notice that the scientists finally concluded that "this object was purposely modified by hominids"...]
Then there's this site, with a scholarly discussion of the significance of Paleolithic art:
http://www.ksharpe.com/word/AR97.htm
This site briefly mentions the "Berekhat Ram" figurine towards the bottom of the article:
"...Van Huyssteen mentions (2006: 178-179) the caves in southwestern Europe as containing some of the oldest prehistoric ‘art' (and the marked ochre pencil from Blombos Cave in South Africa as the oldest ‘art,' dating to 77,000 years), but the scholarly and popular literature contains many counterexamples of much older ‘art.' Whether referencing the 400,000 year-old figurine from Tan-Tan in Moroco - its detailed analysis published in 2003 (Bednarik 2003b) - or the Berekhat Ram figurine dating at 250-280,000 years old (d'Errico and Nowell 2000: 125) (which van Huyssteen references [2006: 199] and a source for which he lists in his bibliography), European Paleolithic ‘art' probably does not constitute the ‘oldest body of figurative art in the world' (van Huyssteen 2006: 170). Perhaps it does not even constitute, in the discussion of human uniqueness, the most significant (see Bednarik 2003a).
· These findings further suggest that Homo sapiens' ancestor, Homo erectus, also created ‘art,' putting a dent in human pride but providing an opportunity to extend uniqueness to the human lineage. Van Huyssteen (2006: 176) therefore prematurely pronounces: ‘Remarkably, this species [Homo sapiens], and this species alone, is firmly and unequivocally associated with the habitual and patterned symbolic marking of objects.' (Note also that the modern human species did not emerge 100,000 years ago, as van Huyssteen says [e.g., 2006: 168], or 125,000 years ago as he writes on another page [2006: 176], but more likely around 180-200,000 years ago. Neither were the Cro-Magnons of the Upper Paleolithic the ‘earliest ancestors' of modern humans..."
Whoops!!! I'll have to go back and check the latest information on when Homo sapiens emerged - I've been under the impression that Homo sapiens is only around 100,000 years old...
Zid
-
ShadesofGrey
What I hate is people using stories to manipulate other people.
Nicely said.
-
punkofnice
In order to have any emotion towards god I first need to establish if 'god' exists.
Right now I can't have emotions for an imaginary deity.
-
jonathan dough
At least the God-haters believe in God. It's a shame they violate the greatest commandment which is to "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."
Matthew 22:36-40
It's not a suggestion, but a command. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-8.html#4
And even if you don't feel like you love him, you should at least act like it.
-
still thinking
Jonathon...how have you come to the conclusion that the God of the bible is the true God? Are you just dismissing other gods? Older gods? because you don't like the idea of it? or do you have some evidence?
Are you ok with me hating Isis or the mother goddess of nature? How do you KNOW they are not the TRUE gods/goddessess?
Maybe you hate god because you are worshipping the false one? Possible?or not?
zid...thanks for the info...it has got me really interested. Gonna look into it further. I have been reading up on the Gnostic texts lately, and I have to say that makes me question even more.
-
jonathan dough
Maybe you hate god because you are worshipping the false one? Possible?or not?
Based on what I wrote, what on earth gave you the idea that I hate God?
Jonathon...how have you come to the conclusion that the God of the bible is the true God?
I became convinced based on how He works in my life, and the words I read in the Bible.
Are you just dismissing other gods?
Well, of course, absolutely. There is only one triune YHWH in my opinion, and he alone is to be worshipped.
Older gods?
Of course I dismiss them, as any true believer must. Not that they are gods in any meaningful sense, or true gods, in my opinion. There is only one God, a triune God, YHWH, but this is opinion; but not only mine. I have good company, over 2 billion believers and counting.
or do you have some evidence?
That there is only one true God, YHWH? Not scientific evidence or anything like that, of course not, other than creation itself which the Bible says is sufficient. But that is not necessary to believe and exert faith. Proof is in the power, not the talk, like sticking your hand in an open flame, you don't need a degree in higher education to know it hurts. The evidence, or proof, that I find satisfactory to me lies in how he works in my life and what I read in Scripture. It's about faith. It was never meant to be "proven" to anyone, although many find evidence enough to convince.
If "proving" the existence of God and Christ was the key to salvation, how few would get saved. Christ's sacrifice was meant to save as many people as possible, and if people must prove intellectually the existence of Christ and YHWH, look who he would end up with. Besides, the standard is a moral one, not an intellectual one. Salvation comes through grace, and faith, not works (Eph. 2:9), and proving your way to salvation is just another type of "works." How can anyone prove the resurrection of the dead? It's impossible. But once a right-hearted person believes that, the rest is a cakewalk.
Are you ok with me hating Isis or the mother goddess of nature?
Why would I care if you love or hate false gods?
How do you KNOW they are not the TRUE gods/goddessess?
Again, it's the standard of proof you are using that's tripping you, and others, up. I believe that they aren't true gods, because the Bible says they aren't, and that's good enough for me. And I come to this conclusion by reading the Bible and studying it and feeling the power of God work in my life in too many wonderful and personal ways to list. He would work in you as well if your heart was in the right place and you asked and made a sincere effort. Can I prove that? That's for you to find out, not for me or anyone else to "prove."
By grace you are saved, through faith. http://www.144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-4.html#17
-
sizemik
Can't say . . . never met him.
-
still thinking
Maybe you hate god because you are worshipping the false one? Possible?or not?
Based on what I wrote, what on earth gave you the idea that I hate God?
Because it is possible that you are worshiping a false god...therefore showing contempt to the true god. And before you say it isn't possible because the bible says so...prove it. How do you actually KNOW that what people believed BEFORE the bible was written wasn't the actual truth. How do you KNOW the bible wasn't a lie showing contempt to previous gods?
Its not that I believe that the older gods were in fact more godly than your god...but what evidence do you really have that you are correct?
Are you just dismissing other gods?
Well, of course, absolutely. There is only one triune YHWH in my opinion, and he alone is to be worshipped.
And here is the problem, it is your opinion isn't it?..So what that millions or even billions believe as you do...billions also don't. What does that prove? Nothing. Indians can and do make the same claims that you do, they have a mulitude of gods, all helping them with their day to day activities....they could also claim that as proof....why are THEY wrong?
-
finallysomepride
still
good post