by minimus 120 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
Having said that, I think Bowen has overblown the reality. That does NOT diminish the victims or their families. But I don't believe there are as many pedophiles as Bowen would like you to believe.
HORSE PUCKEY !!!!
WHAT THE ***** ARE YOU SAYING? THIS IS BULLSHIT OF THE HIGHEST DEGREE.
are you having some brain problems, min? SERIOUSLY!
tal
The organization has a huge problem with pedophiles, because they buy off lawsuits and pay for the lawyers of the pedophiles, while they should be spending those millions helping the victims instead. They side with the pedophiles. That's their problem.
Can you imagine someone robbing an old lady and thinking "Oh no, we have to help those poor robbers! Let's pay their legal bills and ensure that they can live someplace else and tell nobody about their crimes." That's the kind of logic the GB has.
Would the ratio of witnesses pedophiles be greater or smaller to that of other groups? Since there probably is 5-6million adult witnesses the number of cases heard signifies there may be a larger problem within their ranks than one is to believe when compared to others.
Huge problem may not be the case here but the ratio may signal a problem. This can be applied to suicides and other forms of abuse to see there are some major problems within organizations like wts.
No I don't believe there is a massive problem with it. Does it happen? Yes....but I don't think it is any worse than any other religion. The problems for me existed with:
1) the WAY it is/was dealt with. The 2 witness rule is absurd.....but they think they are truly following what the bible tells them
2) IF this is God's organization.....how could He let the 2 witness rule stay in effect?
Oh.....and the fact that "still ins" believe there is no problem whatsoever.....
My wife for example refuses to believe that there is a any problem. She has stated that perhaps....thoughout the last 100 years there may have been "an isolated case or two.....but nothing like what you see in Christendom".
Witnesses are sheltered from the truth and are blind that yes....the problem is just as bad as it is in the Catholic Church....but on a smaller scale because there are less JWs than Catholics
As previously stated by posters on this thread; it is a huge problem based on how it is handled. Here is some faulty reasonning on the matter:
"We are not concerned with whether a person is guilty or innocent, but rather whether or not they repent." - My former Congregation Coordinator
Couple that with - 1) If the person is repentant they are forgiven by Jehovah. Therefore, you have to forgive them and 2) Keeping Jehovah's earthly organization's name above reproach and out of the newspapers is more important than protecting the well being of children.
This all boils down to:
A) If the child abuser says they're sorry they are forgiven.
B) If they are forgiven by Jehovah you have to forgive them as well. Failure to do so could result in you being disfellowshipped.
C) It's more important to maintain the organization's reputation than to protect children.
D) Even if mandatory reporting laws exist, ignore them. You can pick and choose what laws to follow if you think a law violates a Bible principal. After all, you have to obey God rather than men.
I've dealt with uncooperative elders who protected child molesters. I think that was the beginning of the end for me. The detective I worked with said that the elders she needed to testify were subpoena dodging and the trial date was coming up. I took the subpoenas and served everyone of them, personally. I only wished I could have done it at the Kingdom Hall during a meeting.
Nah, I think that there are pedophiles everywhere. My experience was very different than many here. I watched the elders help to put two pedophiles into prison. Honestly, I beleived that this was the norm, and stories to the contrary were the exceptions. I don't know now. But I know that in my congregations, elders did all they could to put the pedophiles into prison. But I belonged to a rather liberal congregation in a city. I can totally see these stories playing out in smaller more conservative congregations. But I also think the same story is playing out in other churches. In this case, I think attitudes matter.
What makes JW's more reprehensible when it happens is their claim to be god's chosen people. Their drive to keep the congregation clean would df a person for a consensual relationship but would hide pedophiles to protect their reputation. It's disgusting, and the stories I have learned here shocked me. But I'm not a noob apostate anymore. I have come to realize they are no better than anyone else.
NC
I'm not missing any point.
Actually, you are missing the point. You are defining whether or not pedophilia is a 'huge problem' based solely on numbers in relation to other religions.
Minimus:
I tend to say YES to your question, but it is not about the numbers, in my opinion. While the religion might not have more than the usual number of perverts that are attracted to religions and access to children, it does have a reputation of not wanting to comply with the laws. Just look at how the catholic church publicly admitted they had a problem and made an apology to the world. Surely the church has a greater percentage of wrongdoers just by virtue of the fact that they have millions more people and have been around for many centuries.
HOWEVER, this is the problem: the JW religion is still trying to maintain a false facade and stating that they don't have much of a problem at all, etc. They also shamefully have that 2 witness rule which is a joke and instructing elders to call and report anonymously from a pay phone, etc. They also have the reputation of giving families of victims a hard time if they choose to go to the (real) authorities - which is what they should have done in the first place. Not go to these clowns!
I might also add that I believe the JW religion cringes whenever it has to "lose" a man because it has more women than men. I feel this weighs heavily in their desire to "forgive" men there in general, even for plain old fornication. I have seen far more women in an offending couple disfellowshipped when the man was screwing just as much as she was! I don't want to hear any crap about how maybe the man was "more" repentant than the woman. This happens too often to be a coincidence.
So, I would have to say that even though the JW religion doesn't necessarily harbor more wrongdoers - it goes OUT of its way to shield these wrongdoers. Also, DON'T FORGET the culture of too much "togetherness" is something that does not necessarily happpen in other religions and is practically unique to the JWs. In other mainstream churches, you don't necessarily hang out and go over people's houses, etc. Whereas, the JWs are socializing with each other and car groups, etc. There are simply MORE opportunities for a pervert to get to the children.
As far as I can see, it is all about the religion retaining more men and preserving its phony "spotless" reputation.
Actually, you are missing the point. You are defining whether or not pedophilia is a 'huge problem' based solely on numbers in relation to other religions.
I would say it is a huge problem but numbers don't tell the whole story
It is impossible to know how many sexual offenders are in any religion that doesn't police their own members as much as the JWs. A family can be nominal Catholics or Anglicans or Muslims. They may only set foot inside their church once a year or maybe never but they would still call themseles whatever. The church in their area may never find out about the allegations because the person isn't involved with the church on a regular basis. Therefore stats will be way off. And since there is no real church involvement by the family the chirch doesn't get involved.
Then we get groups like the JWs or any other cultic group that has a great deal of control over their members. Attendance is pretty much mandated. Policing of activities is very much in effect. If a victim comes forward (or the parent of the victim) the elders will definitely be involved. Their goal is not to help the victim or deal with the accused. They have one goal -- Protect the reputation of the "church" even at the expence of the victims and their families.
Therefore the definition of "huge problem" cannot be based on number of sexual offenders or accused offenders.
I get it that Bowen calls it a huge problem. It is huge. But the reason isn't based statistics as Bowen or others might suggest.
I believe it is a huge problem because these men (and it seems that this crime is perpetrated mostly by men) are not reported to the authorities. They are quietly left in the congregation where they will continue to have access to children. No one is warned there is a predatory in the congregation. If the victim is his own child the poor kid has to go home with him knowing the abuser will be angry that his abuse is out (at least to the elders), the victim now knows he or che cannot look to the elders for help, the victim is warned to be quiet and the abuse continues. The perpetrator now is ensured that he can continue to do what he wants. He just has to make sure his victims will not go to the elders again. So the vicitm has a double gag order. One from the elders who have thrown around worrds like slander, gossip, disfellowship or disassociated (if they aren't baptized) The other gag order is from the perpetrator who now knows he has to enforce the belief in the child that no one will believe them or bad things will happen if they talk. And now that the perpetrator knows he won't be reported he may begin to cast his eye in the direction of other children in the congregation.
And don't forget if too many people in a congregation find out about the abuse all the perp needs to do is move somewhere else. His record might follow him but no one in the congregation will be made aware of the abuse so he now has a whole new congregation of children to prey on.
Sexual offenders need one thing from people. SILENCE. The elders are more than willing to give it to them.
Victims needs more than one thing from people - BREAKING SILENCE is just the beginning . Breaking the silence is the first step towards protecting and supporting the child. This takes effort. It takes time. It takes courage.
