by larc 86 Replies latest jw friends
Hi waiting,
I actually agree with that experience you shared. I believe for ceretain serious disorders and issues,this place is not where they should be.That some folks do belong in a professional structured milieu,which this is NOT.
This place is no substitute for a medical and psych assessment.Just a thought,T
Todays Affirmation:
The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign that the conspiracy is working.
I think larc's statements are part of the rugged individualism that so many of us strive for as we try to adjust our lives from leaving high school, some kind of rotten family environment, the congregation, etc.... We should all want to get to a point where we can look at the past, recognize the hurt that it caused us, and move on with our lives.
Replying to a post like this is difficult becuase I can only think back at how I was treated in school, and how hard it was to nurture self-esteem. To put it bluntly, I hated myself and i wanted to die. In a period of life where you need friends the most, I was beat up by girls, looked down on by teachers, and failed to apply myself in anything I did. Forgive me for saying this but I just wanted to take a gun and blow all of my enemies away. Interestingly, during this time I had a newfound fascination with the Bible, depressing romance novels, and the films of Ingmar Bergman because I could totally relate to the mercenary aspect of what I dealt with in those years. I felt I became a better person, albeit a more miserable one, and such an attitude really suited mer to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses (the elders loooved me). nevertheless, Being a JW is like junior high but long-term, there's bullies, injustice, fist-fights, self-hatred....but unfortunately, it's long term. In such an environment, it's hard to like yourself. Don't get me wrong, we were told to like ourselves but to give so little praise to all the hard work we did (such an attitude I think motivates us to look at the value of what we did there). Personally, I didn't think anything I did there was of any worth, and now that I'm gone I feel a helluva lot better my self. I'm also became cognizant of what my real importance was in the congregation after I left now that the only person who calls me up is the presiding overseer, just to ask me if I ever had sex (you're only given attention if there's the potential that you've committed some grave error).
So, in response to larc's post, I think he gives such comments in support that we all be cognizant of the past, move on with our lives, and remember that the experience was only temporary...
Cheers!
Self Esteem, what's that, when you are picked on, ridiculed, told your dumb, and not pretty, where is there room for self esteem, all childhood things I experienced, and I still remember it all even today. People think of your children and treat them right, build up their self esteem, because it can be real damaging.
Caution: may trigger some.
Howdy Floppy,
Nice to meet you. Self esteem? Yeah - our childhoods play a big part in it. After my dad beat me, masturbated on my face, he walked out, kicked my legs and spit out the word "bitch." I was 18, he had just gutted my Calico cat and left her as a *surprise* for me on my bedroom floor. Btw, he used that parting word with my mom sometimes too. Like mother, like daughter, eh?
But that was then. And it took a lot of therapy to get to this point - to recognize that my self-esteem then is not now. It will always be a part of me - but not the defining part.
I refuse to buckle to his view of me.
If it takes you a world of reading, a world of thinking, a world of screaming, a world of therapy.......it is worth the trip - as you are worth the effort to define yourself.
Nice to meet you.
waiting
Hey waiting,(((hugs)))...OUTLAW
Waiting,
I want you to know that I am sincerely happy that you were one of the lucky ones who managed to hold on long enough to make it to an age to take steps, and still be able to see you needed the help. Regardless of how often we may disagree I am truly happy he didn't break you and you made it. You're right, "it is worth the trip - as you are worth the effort to define yourself." You are worth it, everyone, every little child, every grown person is worth it. Unfortunately some do not hold on to that sliver of sanity that leads to seeking help.
I am happy, no, DELIGHTED for all with such endings as yours. It is those who go beyond that crucial point, someone *does* break them, they never make it anywhere near those happy endings, that I will forever mourn. It's a personal thing and I am on a life-long mission to raise awareness, everywhere, of the importance of addressing these horrors in childhood that go on around us so we can have less who even have to survive such, much less surviving unbroken. It is the cause closest to my heart.
Warm regards and commendations on your survival--
Julie
Howdy Julie,
I know what you're speaking about - my younger brother is one of them. He actually does ok, in a way. But a part of him was broken by my father. My brother sodomized my daughter for many years. He was in therapy for a short while, but it was too much for him at the time, nor did he have the finances to continue. It's all such a shame, as he really was a cute, intelligent boy - and really quite nice as an adult.
It's a shame - but there are millions of ones like my brother and I. Some make it, some don't. Many are just quiet about it.
An interesting study was done on some Death Row inmates. The researchers assumed that all would show quite similar backgrounds, incest being one of the factors. Incest did show up a large percentage of time - but childhood violence showed up every time.
There are all kinds of approaches to the problem - and none work all the time. Perhaps that's one reason that people turn to religions which offer "Peace and Security" in a Paradise?
Enjoyed the conversation.
waiting
((((((((((outlaw))))))))))) - thanks.
(((Positive or negative, our minds and how we think of ourselves is heavily influenced by others telling us about ourselves. We are only a reflection of our many influences in life.)))
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<<<True to a point. If we accept that "we are only a reflection" - this gives no merit to the inner person some feel we are born with. And would seemingly condemn as worth death, the ugly, not intelligent nor loved, among us. George Orwell's 1984 revisited.>>>
Waiting,
I guess I didn't make my statement clear enough, thanks for pointing it out. I did not mean that we are doomed to stay a reflection of the influences in our life but they definitely play a big role in how we think and react to things. To remain only in that reflection is indeed a negative position to go through life with. What I was trying to say, but did not say it well enough is that as we grow to adulthood few people are completely that inner person that we were born as. We are made up of, and react to, things with the influences in our lives taking main stage. Thus we reflect the traits and thoughts of others.
For those who take time to realize this and choose to become independent in thought and manner they must first realize that they may indeed be reacting as they are programed to and not as they really choose to react. It is that inner person you speak of that needs to be found. It is that voice inside each and every one of us that we are taught not to listen to that is trying to tell us who we are. It takes realization of who you became because of our influences and acceptance of the fact that it has made us who we may be, but not who we really are. Once it is recognized and then accepted as a fact then we can begin to change it.
I did not mean that we must accept it and live with it. What I meant to say is we must accept it as a fact and then deal with it. Many people will not accept that many of the negative personality traits that they have were developed in them by other peoples influence. This influential programing is something that for the most part becomes hard wired into our minds and it is hard to understand that it is not our doing. Denying that it exists is denying that it can be dealt with.
Many people are not as heavily influenced by others so it is easier for them to shed past influences. Just as it is that we remember the worst things that happened to us as kids as opposed to the average everyday things that we long forgot, it is the same in the hard wired programing. We tend to develop the worst influences as we grow older because they are the ones that have effected us the most. Admitting that you may have these is just the first step to changing them. Accepting that we have them does not mean we accept them and keep them. We accept them for what they are and how they influence us only to the point of accepting them as a fault that we wish to change. Not accepting them is to deny they exist. If you do that, it makes it hard to change something you do not accept exists.
Sorry for the long response. I get this way when I'm doing ten things at one time. I would edit it and cut it down but it takes too long.
Again, thanks for pointing out my comment so I could clarify it.
Take care,
Dave
Earlier, I wrote a detailed post, only to have it nullified because I had reached my posting limit. I will keep this brief and post more tomorrow.
Seeker, could you provide just one reference that supports your contention regarding Freudian Psychoanalysis?
Julie, when I referenced a particular piece of research, you said I was "name droping". It is standard practice to tie a name to a particular piece of research. Now, if you don't prefer this style, how should I address these issues? I could use the Awake! style and write, "as one psychologist wrote." Would you find that preferable?
I am going to write a little more, since I think am under the posting limit and will be back tomorrow with more of my thoughts.
Seeker,
Classic studies are right by definition, that is why they are referred to as classic. No study has validated Freudian Psycoanalysis. It is a technique that has been proven to be invalid. It is ineffective and inefficient compared to other techniques. Now, what was Eysench's research approach and what about it to you find to be flawed?
Tina, I agree with much of what you wrote, except for what you said about Psychoanalysis, "it is still used effectively today." It is not at all effective.
