If they do that, I just wonder how they will spin the generation teaching. They can keep delaying Armageddon over and over again. It gives them another out.
WT Mar 15th 2012 - 144,000 no longer a literal number?
by dozy 81 Replies latest watchtower bible
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ScenicViewer
If they get too many partakers, you may be on to something.
They've already got too many partakers.
(W 1-15-2000 p13 “Six convincing lines of evidence that we are in the last days”)
… Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling, though some will evidently still be on earth when the great tribulation begins. Most of the remnant are quite elderly, and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller.”That was said in the year 2000.
Partakers in 2000......8,661
Partakers in 2011....11,824
If the number of dwindling partakers proved we are in the last days, what does an increasing number of partakers prove?
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Aaron Eldridge
While the 144,000 may at some point no longer be a literal number, the representatives of the 144,000 and more importantly the governing body will still have control over the other sheep.
This is done by the belief that the 144,000 are the true members of the body of Christ and are the vanguards of the new covenant. Following this line of thinking the only way the other sheep can have blessings from God and the new covenant is through association with the 144,000. As long as this remains there will still be cultic control over the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses. Until the belief that the rank-and-file must associate with the 144,000 and their representatives stays intact there is really no change.
I am not trying to say that this is an insignificant change. It may cause some to start questioning, which is always great. But, the devastating effects of this doctrine are going to remain, as it is one of the main ways that the rank-and-file are kept in submission.
@cyber Jesus. If you are asking when the 144,000 doctrine first began to be used, it predates Russell in the Adventist movement. Though Russell put his own spin on it, the doctrine and was by no means originally his. It really did not take the shape that it has today until Judge Rutherford. I have been meaning for some time to make a thorough post about the development of this doctrine. Perhaps I should gather up all my research and post a new topic about it.
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wha happened?
When I read that a few years ago I had a complete WTF moment. Numbers is my thing and how did I swallow that? 40k killed? How many lived? AAAAHHHHHHH!
I really do think the magic partaker number is just going to be to big to leave, as is. When you start hittting 20k, who's not going to wonder if the number hasn't been hit yet? (20k now in 2015, but not the same 50k in 1930, plus those before in the semi modern times, and then the 1st century hmmmmmm.). I'm guessing they are going to start cherry picking "those holy ones who are truly part of the 144k" with some articles. So the guy who made cheese back in the 20's is out, Brother Russel stays. This number rising just brings a smirk to my face when I think about it.
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MrDarkKnight
This was an question with me 25 years ago and now is a major issue. The teaching of the 144,000 will HAVE to be changed. They will soon have no choice. One of my best friends before I left now claims to be of the "anointed." Where will it end? The writers are guy I personnally know, drank beer with and partied with at Bethel. The thought they are now providing the reading material is incredible to me.
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wha happened?
I'm telling you, they will change the who really is annointed answer by eliminating the cheesemakers.
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AllTimeJeff
History is our greatest teacher on anything. What is the JW pattern? What is always their escape hatch/trap door?
New light!
The new light (or CYA understanding) could include how to view the heavenly hope. I am not sure what that will mean.
On the other hand, the WT has learned not to over-explain their beliefs, esp if it is the pubic edition of the WT. So I don't take the mere absence of the doctrine being explained as evidence they are changing. They probably are just spoon feeding it whenever they can.
Still, an interesting theory, esp since partakers are going up.
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Jeffro
(W 1-15-2000 p13 “Six convincing lines of evidence that we are in the last days”)
… Sixth, the number of genuine anointed disciples of Christ is dwindling, though some will evidently still be on earth when the great tribulation begins. Most of the remnant are quite elderly, and over the years the number of those who are truly anointed has been getting smaller.”Notice the use of the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. Since the definition of 'truly anointed' is ambiguous and essentially meaningless, they can still claim that the number of 'truly anointed' is dwindling. Except when discussing the GB members, JW literature always refers to those who only claim to be anointed. Apparently there is some unstated method by which members are assured that the GB members do not simply make such a 'claim'.
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PaintedToeNail
I once asked an ancient, "annointed" brother (he was born in 1906, if I remember correctly), about the 144,000. "How can there only be 144,000, when so many Christians were killed in the first century and?" His answer was, "Many of them weren't really annointed, they were APOSTATES somehow, therefore, they didn't go to heaven".
I thought about that, just imagine you were thrown into an arena in some Roman place, to be that day's entertainment for the masses, torn apart by lions or wild dogs or perhaps you were to be a human torch, all for your faith in Jehovah and Jesus, and somehow you weren't good enough to be one of the 144,000. What a crying shame and waste.
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JW GoneBad
The old expression comes to mind...."the straw that broke the camels' back."
There is one 'new light' too many around the corner that by itself will contribute a major step in the imploding process of the organization that has already begun. An adjustment to the current literal understanding of the "144,000" may be that 'new light' we are hoping for that will bring on major dissention. Yeah baby!