WT Mar 15th 2012 - 144,000 no longer a literal number?

by dozy 81 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Vanderhoven7

  Both the 144,000 and the "Great Crowd") consist of members who are:

  144,000 / Great Crowd

  a. From every kindred and nation. 5:9 7:9

  b. Servants of God. 7:3 7:15

  c. Divinely protected thru tribulation 9:4,5 /Acts 14:22 7:14

  d. followers of the Lamb 14:4 7:17

  e. Redeemed 14:3 7:14

  f. Pure and Spotless 14:4 7:13,14

  g. Standing before the throne 14:1,3 7:9

  h. Before the Lamb 5:8 7:9

  i. In His temple (naos) 11:1,2 7:15; 11:19

  j. Tenting/residing with God 2Cor.6:16 7:15

  i. Dressed in white robes 6:11 7:9

  j. Wearing robes that are washed 22:14 7:14

  h. A heavenly class 14:1; 4:1,2; 19:1

  i. Spirit begotten 7:3 I Jn. 5:1

  Note: several of these comparisons were derived from "ISOCF"
• 

  BluesBrother

  I have to say that I read that article on-line yesterday and I was also struck by the lack of any mention to 144k number....Why? I do not know.

  I believe though that it would be an almighty leap to say that the number is merely symbolic (although that is how the scriptures read) The two key doctrines of the J W movement are that the last days began in 1914 and that 144k go to heaven. If they changed it now I believe that an exodus of biblical proportion from The Society could follow.

  If I was writing an article in Brooklyn, I would say that:

  although there have been many more than 144k claimants to the position only God knows who is real and chosen. Their were those in the 1st Cent. that Paul criticized within the cong. Were they truly anointed?? Same today and through the centuries, there have been a lot of partakers of the emblems, some left with the Bible Students after CTR died.. only God and Jesus chose from the claimants.

  That argument keeps the definite number and allows any number of partakers with no problem.. NOT that it is my job to form false doctrines for them
• 

  dozy

  Well - the latest public WT mentions the 144,000 , so maybe a change isn't quite in the offing. Watch this space , I guess............
• 

  sabastious

  I'm guessing that the next step will be to announce that only the Governing Body members themselves comprise the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" and that it does not apply to any others professing to have the 'heavenly hope' (if they haven't done this already). This will probably be somewhat shocking to alot of JWs, but they'll just carry on business as per usual. Once this has been accepted, it won't matter one bit to the GB if they make the '144,000' a "symbolic number" since they will effectively have reduced any sort of power or 'special insight', to that of the R&F with the 'earthy hope'. After that, you'll probably see the number of partakers skyrocket.

  I used to play World of Warcraft and they did something similar. Your character would start out advancing in power by increasing in your "level." But there was always a "level cap." After you hit that cap then you could only advance power through the items that you found and equipped. Blizzard Entertainment designed it so that the rarer an item the more power it gave you. This created a prestige phenomenon among the players as their was often special artwork prepared for the really rare gear. But as the content was played by the userbase it would eventually become stale and require replacement. When new versions of the game were released it would make previously rare items commonplace. This could be done by increasing the power of everybody at once making previously hard (rare items) content easy (common items). There would be contention and quarrels among the playerbase, that I took part in, when this happened because many people had spent hundreds of hours getting items that were then in turn being handed out like candy to the newbs. Some of the strongest resentment I have ever seen has come from this process.

  I agree that the doctrine is positioning itself for a spike in partakers. I also predict that the previous partakers will many times resent the new ones. That's why we are seeing them steady as she goes. It's, like Terry said, a magic act that affects the lives of millions positive or negative. The Watchtower is going through another phase transition. These people are experts at what they do and it's both fascinating and horrifying to watch it happen before all our eyes and noses.

  -Sab
• 

  Rattigan350

  Why do people keep concerning themselves over anointing and going to heaven. Neither are something one has control over.
• 

  metatron

  Credit where credit is due.

  Does Mary seem to be the prophet here, after a year?

  GB = Faithful Slave... and what next?

  metatron
• 

  drewcoul

  You may just be observing different factions within the Watchtower. The Service Dept. tends to be run by Nazis and the Writing Dept. by slightly more liberal, out-of-context-quoting, hacks.

  This was made especially manifest during the Recovered Memory Controversy.

  I am not familiar with this controversy. Could someone provide a link?

  Thanks
• 

  questionall451

  I have always expected them to change this in the near future and say that it is "symbolic" of a "finite, and limited number which could be millions, but still be a little flock compared to the OS." They would then perpetuate the 2 classes doctrine indefinately and always have a resevoir of "anointed" brothers to pick the next generation of GB members.
• 

  lostonrye

  I see some New Light,

  All these Jw teachings are Hogwash!
• 

  metatron

  In regard to the Recovered Memory mess, the Writing Staff came up with pro-therapist stuff and asserted in print that 'not looking back at things behind but advancing towards things future' didn't apply to nasty memories that took extended (and often expensive) therapy to sort out.

  The Service Dept. took a dim view of the whole thing. Much the same happened with articles in the Watchtower telling you to take a vacation or recreation once in a while (Writing Dept.) - at the same time the Service Dept. was cracking the whip with their (Theocratic KGB) C.O's in the field.

  The Awake often prints this same sort of contradiction that appears to be blatant, flaming hypocrisy - you know the sort of thing, comments about molesting kids in Christendom, being free to choose your own religion without losing your family and the importance of human rights.

  Once you get over vomiting from this blige, you realize they probably are sincere in their abysmal self deception.

  metatron