This Made Me So Thankful I am No Longer A Christian

by cofty 126 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  myelaine

  dear Tammy...

  you said: "...But from the very beginning of being cast from the garden of eden (the spiritual), and trapped in the flesh (the physical),... "...

  when A&E were driven from the garden there is no evidence that they "died spiritually" in the sense that you have implied. The bible does say that the human spirit is dead toward God OR alive toward God (through Jesus Christ).

  One can die(physically) in their sins(john 8:24), which wouldn't BE or MEAN anything if the spirit is "dead" without Jesus Christ.

  what do you think it means when the sea gives up the dead who were in it...and they were judged, each one according to their works? rev 20:13

  love michelle
• 

  tec

  ut from the very beginning of being cast from the garden of eden (the spiritual), and trapped in the flesh (the physical),...

  I meant cast out of the spiritual realm... and trapped in the physical realm... barred from gaining entrance back into the spiritual realm. (the garden of Eden)

  (We are spirits inside physical bodies)

  I don't know if that changes what you understood from my post or not?

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  myelaine

  dear Tammy...

  in genesis 2 it says that God created man on the earth and then in genesis 2:15 God took him to the garden of eden(2:8-14) to tend and keep it...why would God create man on physical earth and then take him to a different "realm"?

  love michelle
• 

  tec

  On the earth, or from the earth (dust)? Is there a distinction there? Could mean something.

  But in any case, he was created from the dust and then brought into the garden. So he could traverse both at that time... then became confined only to one when he was cast out.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  steve2

  The holy writings were [not] meant for comfort.

  I take your point. JWs are like you in that they often say that their own message is not a completely positive one. I understand that and accept that in life messages need not be completely positive to be of benefit to listeners. Where I have difficulty - and perhaps some day a patient believer will explain it to me - is not the sternly uncomfortable warnings in the Bible - if heeded, they potentially could be of benefit to listenrs. No, what I have difficulty with is the OT portrayal of "the one True God" as an instigator of genocide against entire nations, ordering mass slaughter of the peoples who occupied the then-promised land. You could be like the JWs and accuse me of wanting the Bible watered down for my own comfort. But my question is not about comfort but about the morality of genocide.

  I sincerely wish that believers in the Bible, including the Old Testament, would stop questioning my motives for a moment, and just answer my question about the morality of genocide. I fear that if believers acknowledged "the one True God" actually ordered genocide, they'd have a mountain of a job explaining its moraliy - or, possibly just not care becaus what ever their God orders is okay with them.

  As I say, I await a believer who can take the time to answer the question clearly and plainly without impugning my motives for asking. I suspect that believer will not be Ndrew.
• 

  cofty

  I just don't see us having a leg to stand on in blaming Him for not stopping suffering. - Tammy

  I am furious at reading your lame apologetics for god. Its the same old trite platitudes that led directly to my exit from faith. I will respond in more detail later.
• 

  N.drew

  @I suspect that believer will not be Ndrew. The nicest insult I ever had! Thank you Haha!

  I don't know the answer so your safe.
• 

  N.drew

  believers acknowledged "the one True God" actually ordered genocide, they'd have a mountain of a job explaining its moraliy

  The question was answered satisfactorily for now for me by the Watchtower. You may stone me now. Oh thats right! Thank you God for phones and therefore the internet! You can't stone me, unless you can find me first!

  I hope you don't have enought money for a private eye. Or hacking abiity. Or an atom bomb.
• 

  Band on the Run

  Tammy,

  I don't like your beliefs but they are your right. You don't like mine. Your post about the benefits of suffering was over the top in ignorance and hurtfulness. Despite viewing things differently, I don't want you to experience what I did or what others here going thru cancer treatments, Parkinsons, MS, have. There are gradations of suffering. Ask the people who leaped to their deaths at the WTC if suffering was good. Certainly, our tradition teaches us that God is powerful. Omnipotent. He can teach us lessons in nicer ways.

  Again, it is your choice not mine. You are not moored in Christian tradition, the Bible, and esp. the historical Jesus. I suspect that one reason for the Incarnation was that YHWH was so bloody and impersonal. In my tribulation, I could never pray to him. He was too remote. Jesus, or so the church teaches, was a real human. The central motif of Christianity is God made Man, suffers horribly and redeems the world.

  If I lacked discipline, my Jesus could morph into anything that suited me. We do project our feelings and dreams onto Jesus. The historical Jesus is hard to keep in mind. We don't worship whimsies of our mind. Jesus showed that he wanted us to work it out in communities. A Guest sees what she wants to see. Facts don't get in the way. N.Drew, the same. You are a nice version. It is frustrating for other people. Children believe with such lack of knowledge.

  The benefits of suffering caused me great pain. I am revved up. Pray that you never meet up with the worse forms of suffering.

  Steve has a interesting perspective. YHWH was Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao - all people described as pure evil.
• 

  Band on the Run

  Tammy,

  I don't like your beliefs but they are your right. You don't like mine. Your post about the benefits of suffering was over the top in ignorance and hurtfulness. Despite viewing things differently, I don't want you to experience what I did or what others here going thru cancer treatments, Parkinsons, MS, have. There are gradations of suffering. Ask the people who leaped to their deaths at the WTC if suffering was good. Certainly, our tradition teaches us that God is powerful. Omnipotent. He can teach us lessons in nicer ways.

  Again, it is your choice not mine. You are not moored in Christian tradition, the Bible, and esp. the historical Jesus. I suspect that one reason for the Incarnation was that YHWH was so bloody and impersonal. In my tribulation, I could never pray to him. He was too remote. Jesus, or so the church teaches, was a real human. The central motif of Christianity is God made Man, suffers horribly and redeems the world.

  If I lacked discipline, my Jesus could morph into anything that suited me. We do project our feelings and dreams onto Jesus. The historical Jesus is hard to keep in mind. We don't worship whimsies of our mind. Jesus showed that he wanted us to work it out in communities. A Guest sees what she wants to see. Facts don't get in the way. N.Drew, the same. You are a nice version. It is frustrating for other people. Children believe with such lack of knowledge.

  The benefits of suffering caused me great pain. I am revved up. Pray that you never meet up with the worse forms of suffering.

  Steve has a interesting perspective. YHWH was Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao - all people described as pure evil.