This Made Me So Thankful I am No Longer A Christian

by cofty 126 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Sulla
    Sulla

    Twtich, I'm referring to the idea that they buried the body with reverence and gifts inside the grave, not the practice of leaving flowers in rememberance. There is a practice in many palces and times of decorating the inside of tombs, or example.

    But, to your point, we want to remember the dead because human life is special. If life is special, so is death, I'd argue. And, with death, suffering. In this way, a person's entire life could be considered a mystery, a sacrament, holy. The entire Christian approach is emphatically confirmed by the Incarnation, in which Being itself entered into humanity and experienced the totality of it: all the way to suffering and death.

    If we think human life is special, then we are stuck with the observation that it will, on late night, come to an end and that the end is likely to include suffering. It isn't obvious to me that we should partition a life into those pieces that are special (good times with family, climbing a mountain, whatever) and those pieces that are not (the things associated with the end of it).

    That said, I am in essential agreement with the original post, which compained about the simplistic and offensive approach of certain unspohisticated Christians. I am simply attempting to point out that these people are operating outside of the much larger Christian tradition. That tradition begins with the observation that Being itself assumes humanity and that humanity -- all of it, down to the suffering part -- is thereby mysterious, a sacrament. It is, as I have said, a point to begin thinking.

    Otherwise, I feel that we are stuck with the idea that, well, cancer sucks and watching family members die sucks, too. And nothing more. Maybe it works for some folks, and that's fine. But the trend throughout human history has been to go in the other direction and, in a way, it is the very definition of being human. We shouldn't be too hasty in throwing that away.

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    Christians choose to believe in a personal God. Many do not believe their God is responsible for our suffering. Some do and that is the point of contention. Logically, either the Christian God exists and is to blame; exists and is not to blame; or does not exist.

    Those of us who do not believe such a God exists, have no need to become alarmed or angry if there are Christians who want to place the blame for suffering on their God. It is in a way an own goal.

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    Isn't it funny that critics will take all the wisdom and the so called prophesy and fling it, but the acts of war they take to their heart and cry "bad god". How do you know the order to " I find it rich to the point of astonishment that the "god" who speaks with such lovy-dovy sentiments himself ordered the spilling of so much human blood for his name's sake." is not also a "fairy tale"? Oh let's look at all the nasty things the nay sayers have done and define you all that way. Hey why not? At best being so disappointed in the god for the sins of him keeps you on the strait and narrow. Doesn't it? No I don't think God sins! Haha You guys are so funny!

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    What is faith? So people with afflictions have no faith and those with hangnails have faith. I was taught faith is a gift from God. Again, there are posters who who receive utterly silly revelations or believe they are the Messiah. They have faith. God gave me some intelligence. I question and muddle through possibilities. I simply do not believe God chooses to help us based on faith. It is as arbitrary as blue eyes or brown eyes. Faith's manifestation seems to have little to do with grace as Paul wrote and much to do with temperament. Temperament that we do not choose. We pop out of the womb with it.

    Tammy, You post nicely. I rarely agree with you but you are not obnoxious at all. In fact, your tone enables me to hear you more than the crazies who post.

    Your post triggered PTSD in me. I am not enraged with you but the immense denial. Is faith following a script without question. I have no idea how old you are. I knew God needed to be task for illness when I was in preschool. My brother has cerebral palsy. We had to go to a treatment center every day. Little children were imprisoned by their bodies. Also, going to door in a very downtrodden city, I saw things that blew my mind.

    Do you really think the WWII HOlocaust occurred b/c all those victims had no faith or did not ask. A loving parent acts,, particularly with small children. I've been in hospice units. God is not so facile.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Live with the anguish I did and see how mysteries appear as a good thing. Animals are euthanized. Death still frightens me b.c of the Witness belief. What scares me utterly is a long death, full of suffering and isolation. Strange, I just described Jesus.

    I hold my God to higher standards.

  • N.drew
    N.drew
    What scares me utterly is a long death, full of suffering and isolation.

    I have observed that fear can cause the object of your fear. Christ takes fear away.

  • N.drew
    N.drew
    but you are not obnoxious at all. In fact, your tone enables me to hear you more than the crazies who post.

    I tend to take it personally when posters post such things. It is my weakness. Just so you know.

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    But I'm hardly posting for your enjoyment and/or satisfaction.

  • tec
    tec

    Tammy, peace to you too. Your belief is neither more nor less sincere than those who believe very differently than you. Ultimately, just as Christians are fond of saying "It's a personal choice" I say the same to the myriad Christian groups and individuals who disagree so

    sincerely and fervently with one another let alone with those who belong to non-Christian" religions or to no religion.

    Okay, but I never said anything about the sincerity or lack in other beliefs. I can't answer for others beliefs. I can only speak for myself, and carry on a conversation as to that. So I did. Anything else from me, as pertaining to others, is just a guess.

    I prefer to tear apart specious reasoning where ever it is found. I amopen to having my thinking torn apart by the same reasoning - and over the years, I've had my reasoning torn apart and modified - some times drastically. I have no holy set of beliefs to defend and I have no spiritual experience that renders useless the well marshalled argmuents of others.

    Okay.

    It just so happens that in this thread its the shonky thinking of why "god"allows suffering (a baited questionifever there were one. I know. I know. I know. Each group and almost each believer, has their own well paced explanation to the ensnaring question. It's the bait that has hooked many an interested person confronted by JWs. One daren't utter this question within earshot of a "true" believer because then the Tammy Wynetteisms flow like days-old soured milk. I can tolerate people's belief just like people tolerate mine. I cannot however tolerate people's well tapestried explanations and defenses ofthose beliefs when reason and logic have been so thoroughly parked outside the building when they belong in the structure and ambience of the building itself. Sell me fresh milkabd by taste and smellI'll know it's fresh. Sell me soured milk and I'll know by offensive taste and smell that it's from the "holy"Bible.
    Okay, but I don't really know what you're talking about as pertains to me. Or perhaps you're speaking in general? This is what I did as well, so I can now see how that can muddy the waters, wondering what ex actly the other person is talking about.
    If Jesus were true, he would deserve far better than the motley little scratched stories we have adoringly called the Bible.

    Well, of course. Those stories are barely a glimpse. They're just the only thing we have that we can 'see' and 'touch'; so they become the whole thing to some people, instead of just a part of the whole thing.

    Peace again,

    Tammy

  • cofty
    cofty

    I would be intersted on your thoughts about the OP Tammy?

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