Atheists..... throwing the baby out with the bath water ?

by snare&racket 403 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  caliber

  "It seems to me like there are more atheists on this board (percentage-wise) than there are in general. I talk to many non-jw people in my area (some quite well educated) who believe in God and are quite religious."

  A 2004 BBC poll showed the number of people in the US who don't believe in a god to be about 9%. [10] A 2008 Gallup poll showed that a smaller 6% of the US population believed that no god or universal spirit exists. [31] The most recent ARIS report, released March 9, 2009, found in 2008, 34.2 million Americans (15.0%) claim no religion, of which 1.6% explicitly describes itself as atheist (0.7%) or agnostic (0.9%), nearly double the previous 2001 ARIS survey figure of 0.9%. [32] The highest occurrence of "nones", according to the 2008 ARIS report, reside in Vermont, with 34% surveyed. [33]

  The latest statistics show that a lack of religious identity increased in every US state between 1990 and 2008. [34] However less than 2% of the U.S.

  population describes itself as atheist. [

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism

  I believe that from thread response that about 90% (at least of the" vocal majority") are either agnostic or atheist on JWN

  This of course could be way off due to fears or those who feel too much intimidation to say otherwise.... in my opinion only !

  I am not included in the 90%
• 

  metatron

  There are a lot of points to be answered here - I'll try to hit as many as I can recall.

  First, I'm accused of "choosing comfort over truth" and that the motives behind theists are "irrational". To which I reply..........

  Yeah, so what? I strongly object to what I call "atheist theology" - an oxymoron that summarizes the odd idea that technical truth alone or above all else is a suitable guide for the human race, as if some God or hidden universal code designed things that way!

  So, the facts of evolution lead us away from belief in a personal Creator? And that means we would be better off if we dumped religion, became "rational" (what the heck is that, exactly?) , all because it's the "truth", right? And your proof of this "religious" notion is what? (what else can I term it, conveniently but 'religious'?). Yes, Virginia, rationality in this context is......... irrational!

  China has Godless Confucianism and is doing OK........ yeah, NOW they are! After competition from the "Christian" West got them moving, after being w-a-y ahead of Medieval Europe - and then stagnating for centuries. Likewise, Japan with its stultfying Shinto/Buddhism, which simply withdrew from the world - until challenged by the progress of "Christian" nations ( I actually like Buddhism, by the way)

  Exactly how is the human race "rational"? Do you think that spending a fortune on 20+ years on raising a baby to adulthood is "rational"? Is defending your nation in war and possibly losing your life "rational"? How about just working for a living? Why bother? These things support a society but loafing at the local pub sounds far more "rational" to me, than going thru all this bother..... and I think that - not global warming/Aztec calendars/pandemics/ whatever - is the greatest threat to the world's continuance.

  If you think otherwise, consider a recent poll in Japan in which over a third of young men expressed a disinterest in sex, with the rate for young women at about 2/3rds. Greece is reported to have 42 grandkids for each 100 grandparents, currently. In my opinion, this is the result of modern day "rationality"..................................... it's just not worth the effort.......

  metatron
• 

  Qcmbr

  I suspect that the most vocal posters may also represent the most polarised views but I have no stats to back that up. There is a huge swathe of lurkers who maybe don't feel strongly enough to post on any particular god/no god topic. Like NC said - once you leave one religion it makes it much easier to keep asking questions.
• 

  N.drew

  @ metatron... the first.... " If you think otherwise, consider a recent poll in Japan in which over a third of young men expressed a disinterest in sex, with the rate for young women at about 2/3rds. Greece is reported to have 42 grandkids for each 100 grandparents, currently."

  Is this not good news? Population is expanding at a tremendous rate at the same time energy is depleting. I suspect the loss of interest in sex is a fine example of oops wrong thread evolution in action. Sorry! (is it OK if I go off topic if the other poster was "off topic" first?). You may vote.
• 

  cofty

  I believe that from thread response that about 90% (at least of the" vocal majority") are either agnostic or atheist on JWN - Caliber

  A veritable oasis of reason.
• 

  caliber

  Finally I have made a comment that has" delighted "cofty hahahahaha!

  Have" faith " at least that all things can eventual happen !!

  In the sense of humor I dedicate this song... ha ha ha ha ha !!

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R3GtAnO66o
• 

  tec

  Translated as - Some people refuse to believe stuff without sufficient evidence, others think its a virtue

  Not translated as such.

  What is sufficient evidence for you, is for you to say. What is sufficient evidence for me, is for me to say.

  Virtue has nothing to do with it.

  This persistent idea that atheists lack something.

  No winning, is there?

  I'm not telling you why you do or don't believe, which is the complaint of this thread. I'm also not judging you for what you do or dont' believe, or why you do or don't believe. I don't know why you don't (other than what you have shared). That is for YOU to say, not me.

  But if you don't have faith in Christ, you don't have faith in Christ. I'm not making any kind of a comment on your character.

  At least I don't look at you and say you are lacking something. I believe you have all you need--not that you are missing something. My discussions center on asking to use what I know you have and can use---yours dismiss me as I simply don't get it.

  I e x plained above, so maybe that will be clearer.

  I used to have faith---I understand it well. I was a true believer, no hesitations. It was all connected to what was already here, in all of us, thinking ability. It was how I thought about things, not some mystical trait that I simply didn't possess. There is nothing lacking in here.

  Saying that some have faith (in Christ and/or God) and some don't is a simple fact. I am not stating any reasons for it.

  I think you are wrong, Ndrew, to assert that atheists have no faith.

  Ah...

  I did not mean to imply that you have no faith, period, in anything. Only that you do not have faith in Christ. (I know you addressed that to Nancy, but I think it makes sense as to what you were talking about in reference to me)

  Actually we do, but it is evidence based.

  As is mine.

  My faith is not blind or built on nothing. I believe because that is where the evidence leads me. I cannot believe otherwise, because the evidence does not take me anywhere else. Not because I've plugged my ears and closed my eyes and just 'chosen' belief over no belief.

  tec can you ever conceive of a point where you no longer have faith and yet are still you?

  I don't understand your question.

  I am me.

  Not having faith might change some attributes about me, such as my outlook on life and the universe. But 'tammy' would still exist as me.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  thetrueone

  Atheists..... throwing the baby out with the bath water ?

  Bad analogy, more like throwing out human ignorance which is structured around past ignorances, in a effort to improve upon the human experience.

  The reason most atheists are endeared to self describe themselves as humanists.
• 

  00DAD

  I've always just thought that expression meant that when you exit the JW belief system you give some thought to not simply discarding EVERYTHING you believe simply because you've become disillusioned and seen through the hypocrisy and lies of the WTBTS.

  Not EVERYTHING they taught is wrong.
• 

  cofty

  Not EVERYTHING they taught is wrong. - 00DaD

  I beg to differ.