Atheists..... throwing the baby out with the bath water ?

by snare&racket 403 Replies latest jw friends

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  poopsiecakes
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  tec

  So, trying a different interpretation of your comment, do you have questions about your beliefs???

  You don't need an interpretation of my comment, Ziddina. I am right here to tell you what I meant. Instead you choose to tell me what I meant.

  But in answer to your question, of course I have absolutely questioned my beliefs. Everyone here has done this or they would NOT be out of the grips of the WTS. Just because some people have a different conclusion than you does not mean that they have not done any soul searching. I just posted that I had questioned myself a couple of weeks ago... on whether or not I was making things more difficult in involving a creator in our beginning. And that is just one e x ample.

  Or is there ANOTHER interpretation of your comment, that you'd care to share with us?

  Like I said, I don't need to interpret my own comment. I told you what I meant, and why I responded as I did.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  NewChapter

  Okay Tec, I'm still unclear on your answer. Are you saying that you believe all writings specifically on Jesus's life are reliable?
• 

  Violia

  I have had years of therapy and know that changing my thought process will change how I talk to myself . If I have positive self talk I feel better about things and negative self talk leads to feeling fatalistic frequently. However, what I was referring to was just that amazing sense of connection with a higher being and feeling extremely calm. It really did feel like the silver cord that many in the new age religions talk about. It was like walking about in a prayerful state. I very much miss that b/c whether Jehovah is real or not, I miss the peace I got from the things I was doing .I do not miss jws b/c they were very negative for the most part.

  I know I am responsible for my life choices and all that. This goes beyond that. I was never one who thought every little thing that happened was b/c it was a blessing from Jehovah. In fact, I often argued with a sister regarding this. She would say my lack of joy was evidence of lack of Jah's spirit. I would say, no it is not b/c I was depressed at the time. I often heard jws talk like this and found it very annoying. I never felt this way , I believe in what people used to say " God helps those who help themselves". I did help myself but have not forgotten the strong sense of peace and yes, happiness I felt at times. I did not even believe jws anymore when this happened.

  so while NC had an epiphany sort of moment, I guess I did too years ago. It was when i realized Jws were wrong and just started looking at the Bible seriously without the aide of the wts.
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  tec

  Okay---but you said that anything that conflicts with christ is not reliable. You've also indicated that much written in the bible conflicts with christ. So what portions of the bible are you drawing your knowledge from? Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? All of the NT? If you are aware that something conflicts with christ, then what scriptures do you use to define him?

  See, you aren't understanding my answers to your questions because you do not see the 'bible' in the same way. For you, it is an all or nothing book. (that is what it sounds like to me) For me, it is not.

  I began learning about Christ from the writings about Christ. You need a list of the books... I don't know why. Whatever writing talks about what Christ did, taught, and said. The four gospels do that, so sure. Those were people who recorded (through interview or eperience) what Christ did, taught, and said. Those are witness accounts. (word of mouth written down)

  This is an evasion of the key question Tammy.

  Not evading. Might have been answering someone else's question though.

  There is no word of mouth about Jesus, no other writings.

  There are writings about Christ outside of the bible, yes. And there certainly was word of mouth about Him. Still is. I heard about Him before I read about Him.

  Do you accept the gospels as authoritative?

  Define authoritative.

  I accept them as witness accounts.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  ziddina

  "If there were no bible, there would still be writings about Christ. There would still be word of mouth..." tec

  And here is where the disconnect from reality starts...

  There were rival "Christs" in the 1st century C.E. There were rival religions - the religion of Mithras was one competitor with Christianity for the coveted position of the religion of the Roman legions - the route by which Christianity became the "official" Roman religion, by the way...

  As was the religion of the Roman Isis, to mention another competitor... And the cult of Dionysus, which pre-dates Christianity by several hundred years, and within which their god was "sacrificially killed" and his blood "symbolized" by the drinking of wine, to mention just a couple of paralells with the "life" of "Jesus".

  Since the cult of Dionysus PREDATED Christianity by several hundred years - at the very least, it is certain that the Christian writers borrowed from the Greek Dionysus' mythology and symbolism.
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  ziddina

  "But in answer to your question, of course I have absolutely questioned my beliefs. Everyone here has done this or they would NOT be out of the grips of the WTS. ..." tec

  Yessss, but you have previously stated that you never WERE a Jehovah's Witness...

  So, are you now implying that you WERE once a Jehovah's Witness???
• 

  tec

  As was the religion of the Roman Isis, to mention another competitor... And the cult of Dionysus, which pre-dates Christianity by several hundred years, and within which their god was "sacrificially killed" and his blood "symbolized" by the drinking of wine, to mention just a couple of paralells with the "life" of "Jesus".

  The parallels of this and other Christ-myth comparisons are not based on true scholarship, but are instead based on 'internet claims disguised as facts'

  However, you remind me of one other thing that caused me to question my faith. These things... these Christ is a copycat claims. I avoided them for a while, then called myself a coward and told myself to go and search the truth out. Research the sites, the sources, etc. It it is true, then it is true.

  So even though I was scared, I did it. I researched, found the copycat claims to be false and 'padded in an attempt to make their case' (and Leo on this site found the same thing... I say this, because I KNOW that you will not consider what I have to say on the matter as anything close to intelligent or true)

  Just an fyi on the whole 'without question' comment.

  Yessss, but you have previously stated that you never WERE a Jehovah's Witness...

  True. I believed they had the truth, but I never did join.

  So, are you now implying that you WERE once a Jehovah's Witness???

  I am not.

  How you find suspicion in a simple and general comment (that the believers on this site have questioned their faith, just as I also have) is beyond me. Unless you're trying to find and catch me in a lie so you can pounce on it? Are you?

  Peace,

  Tammy
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  cofty

  There are writings about Christ outside of the bible, yes. And there certainly was word of mouth about Him. Still is. I heard about Him before I read about Him.

  You keep asserting this. There are no writings about Jesus outside the bible apart from vague refences that tell us absolutely nothing about him.

  There is no word of mouth that does not originate with the bible.

  Define authoritative. I accept them as witness accounts.

  Do you accept what the gospels say as true? All of it or do you pick and choose from the gospels as well.
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  tec

  You keep asserting this. There are no writings about Jesus outside the bible apart from vague refences that tell us absolutely nothing about him.

  Gnostics? All the letters and writings that the earlier church left OUT of the bible when they were choosing what to put in it?

  There is no word of mouth that does not originate with the bible

  Word of mouth originated with the man. There was no bible then. If there had been no word of mouth then, there could not have been any NT gospels to write. Unless they were recorded in real time, and everything we have suggests otherwise.

  Right now, the word of mouth that we have is based on the gospels... but also on some personal ex perience that people share. Sifting through those can be hard if you don't know to ask Christ, yourself (especially if you dont' believe there is such a person to ask to begin with).

  Do you accept what the gospels say as true? All of it or do you pick and choose from the gospels as well.

  Sure, I accept them. I dont' think they're inerrant or anything. So I take them, as I take everything, with a grain of salt . But yeah, I accept them as what they are... witness accounts as to Christ.

  Peace,

  Tammy