Is Biblical Morality Situational, Based Upon the Arbitrary Whims of Yahweh?

by leavingwt 268 Replies latest jw friends

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  EntirelyPossible

  Research how dog breeders work and then read the post again. God chose certain traits, that's genetics plain and simple.

  Oh Sab. Stop ducking your own words. You said "The Bible says God chose the righteous genetic traits of Abram who was a great warrior who won many battles". I am simply asking you to show me where the Bible talks about Abrahams righteous genetic traits and God choosing them, or where is says righteousness IS genetic. I am not asking about dog breeders, I am asking YOU to verify what YOU wrote with clear scriptural citations.

  I know quite well how genetics works, that's not the question. The question is, where does the Bible CLEARLY say God was choosing genetic traits as you said it does?

  And I do say so and I can back up what I say, unlike you who just use "I know you are but what am I" arguments.

  The clearly show me where the Bible says god was choosing genetic traits. Back up what you say. And, since you are backing up what you say, show me a single instance where I have EVER said "I know you are but what am I". I know that I AM THAT I AM.

  Back it up. If you are going to claim the Bible says something and that I have said something, put up or shut up. And, I would NEVER ask you what I am. I clearly know who and what I am. I wouldn't rely on something that makes groundless claims while worshipping an imaginary sky monster about who I am. I prefer opinions grounded in reality instead.

  Grey morality needs deep thought and interpretation for full understanding.

  How is ordering the slaughtering of babies morally grey? Ripping the fetuses out of pregnant women? Killing almost everything on the entire planet? How is that morally grey? Would it take deep interpretation if someone came to your house, killed your wife and took your daughter and dashed her head open on the rocks because God told them they should move into your house? Is that morally grey?

  If it is, then my only comment is that I am glad most Christians are too weak to fully embrace their God and that we have secular laws preventing them from acting the way their imaginary sky daddy suggests his worshippers should act. It's probably the greatest gift to the world you all are too weak to TRULY follow God.

  YHWH knows that the Abram chromosomes are A-OK so he makes sure that "the son of a slave" will be turned into a nation as well.

  Awesome. Show me where the Bible says Abram's chromosomes were A-OK and we can move on past this. Otherwise, you appear to simply be confusing inheritance and birthrights with genetics.

  YHWH is depicted as not wanting to jerk anyone around when he doesn't have to. He is a mitigator of pain, but also a causer of it. Very Godly.

  Well, not really. Abram banging is Hagar is what jerked Sarah around, who inturned exiled them, which, no matter what happened later, is jerking them around. God had a hand in all of this.

  Hitler was nice to kids. Are you suggesting that simply being nice at times makes a person Godly, no matter what other douchebag things they do?
• 

  sabastious

  I am not asking about dog breeders, I am asking YOU to verify what YOU wrote with clear scriptural citations.

  I provided them and you said they were unclear and expected me to understand why you missed my point. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't it's hard to keep up with your ideas through the bigotry. The answer to your question lies in the story of Noah first (actually Adam, but lets keep things simple), then Abraham. I know it's a lot to ask that you keep context because it's your number one debate trick, but please try. Noah was the puppy set aside and Abram, the Righteous Warrior, was the fruition of that unnatrual selection and breeding process. God needed a warrior because war was in his children's future, but he needed to still retain righeousness. Abram's righteousness would never have come to be without Noah and the flood. The Israelites, in the story, are segregated (KEYWORD) from unrighteousness. This required bitter war, there was no other path or else it would have been taken.

  How is ordering the slaughtering of babies morally grey?

  I am beginning to suspect you don't read my posts. They are well thought out I suggest you go back.

  Hitler was nice to kids. Are you suggesting that simply being nice at times makes a person Godly, no matter what other douchebag things they do?

  That is a false analogy and very insulting to the Torah and everything is stands for. Hilter wanted to eradicate God's children. YHWH wanted to setup a place where his righteous seed could grow. Whooee, you have no tact, no tact at all, but that's your problem not mine. The fate of Ishmael shows the YHWH character's implicit trust in Abraham as a son of Noah. The fact that he was so concerned over Ishmael's fate (as in not getting a nation from him too) shows that YHWH had selected Noah correctly. Morality, even the kind we take for granted (love from father) was starting to show in his puppies.

  If Genesis is read without a cynical eye the beauty springs forth. YHWH is working with Bronze Age nomads, have a little empathy for the position.

  -Sab
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  I provided them and you said they were unclear and expected me to understand why you missed my point.

  No, you did not. At all. You cited some scriptures and then claimed they meant what you said. I am not missing your point at all AND I never said the scriptures were unclear, I am saying they don't say anything about righteous genes. I am just asking you to do what you said you could, that is to backup this statement with a scripture, "The Bible says God chose the righteous genetic traits of Abram who was a great warrior who won many battles". Just show me where the bible clearly says that.

  I am not asking about dog breeders, rights if inheritence or anything like that, just a scripture that clearly talks about god choosing Abraham because of his righteous genetic traits.

  Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't it's hard to keep up with your ideas through the bigotry.

  Oh Sab. You should look up words before you use them. I don't have intolerance towards your beliefs. I have no respect at all for the idea that the God of the Bible was a good guy, but that doesn't mean I am intolerant of it.

  So, can you cite a scripture that talks about genetics or not?

  I know it's a lot to ask that you keep context because it's your number one debate trick, but please try. Noah was the puppy set aside and Abram, the Righteous Warrior, was the fruition of that unnatrual selection and breeding process.

  So Noah was a puppy and Abram was fruit? Like a melon or a grape or something? Maybe a lemon? Why was the puppy set aside? Was he a bad puppy that went poop inside the tent or something? I don't see ANYTHING about genetics in there. I mean, you said the Bible said it. I am sticking on topic for you 100%. Show me the scripture talking about genetics.

  The Israelites, in the story, are segregated (KEYWORD) from unrighteousness. This required bitter war, there was no other path or else it would have been taken.

  Well that's patently untrue. They were, according to the Bible, banging everything in site that worshipped any other God's. For a segregated people, they sure wallowed in the unrighteousness. God sucked at segregation, apparently. As far as bitter war, why couldn't they have done something crazy like, go live somewhere other people weren't already living?

  Ao anyway, didn't see a scripture talking about genetics. Do you have one?

  I am beginning to suspect you don't read my posts. They are well thought out I suggest you go back.

  Ah, praising yourself for being smart. So anyway, is bashing babies heads in morally grey or not?

  That is a false analogy and very insulting to the Torah and everything is stands for. Hilter wanted to eradicate God's children.

  Oh, sorry, buckaroo. You should try reading the Bible. The Jews aren't God's people anymore. But, even presuming they were, the war he started got over 20 million other people killed.

  How the analogy false? God DID kill his own people when it suited him. Many times. Even when they had done nothing wrong. How is God killing his people for doing nothing wrong different that Hitler killing what USED to be God's people for doing nothing wrong?

  And, none of that mentioned genetics. Is that in the Bible anywhere?

  Whooee, you have no tact, no tact at all, but that's your problem not mine.

  Hey, I'm not the one saying a God that murder babies is all good in my life. I'd rather have no tact and a solid moral code that be sweet and nice and worship a murderer, no matter how fictional he is.

  The fate of Ishmael shows the YHWH character's implicit trust in Abraham as a son of Noah. The fact that he was so concerned over Ishmael's fate (as in not getting a nation from him too) shows that YHWH had selected Noah correctly.

  Yeah, about that. God sucks at choosing. God said there would emnity between the brothers and, if you beleive the bible and that sort of things, Ishmaels 12 sons and their descendents have been trying to wipe Israel and Jew our for thousands of years since. What did God implictely trust Ishmael to do, keep trying to kill his brothers family forever?

  Is that a genetic this? Is there a scripture that says Ishmael had good genes somewhere? I would, at this point, even settle for saying he had good jeans.
• 

  NewChapter

  You don't have to be anything, you have free will.

  Yes I do have free will---and so do the people that believe in this mythical creature. Therefore, because they can use their free will to suppress my freedom of choice, and some use it to try and keep our children in ignorance, I WILL be concerned with what is attributed to this bronze age god, so I can figure out where the next atttack on my self determination will come from.

  CN
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  NewChapter

  That is a false analogy and very insulting to the Torah and everything is stands for. Hilter wanted to eradicate God's children. YHWH wanted to setup a place where his righteous seed could grow

  Talk about tact. You say the slaughter of Jews was wrong (and it was) but somehow the slaughter of the Canaanites was righteous? So that righteousness could grow? What an attitude!!!!

  Next step---we unrighteous may one day need to be eradicated so that more of that good old righteousness can grow!

  But as we've established, Biblical morality is based on the arbitrary whims of a bronze age god.

  NC
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  tec

  But as we've established, Biblical morality is based on the arbitrary whims of a bronze age god.

  I don't think we've established any such thing, lol.

  Biblical morality is often limited by the limitations (in understanding and in their environment) of the people at the time. God never changed his morality. People just interpreted it in ways according to their own whims and limitations and understanding.

  Peace,

  Tammy
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  EntirelyPossible

  People just interpreted it in ways according to their own whims and limitations and understanding.

  Well, no. Reading the text exactly as written, you get exactly what NC described. The whim of interpretation is what you are doing, saying"those parts aren't really from God because they have God ordering bad stuff".

  THAT'S the interpretation, selective reading. Not that it's bad, you clearly have a higher moral sense than the God of the Bible as written, but it IS most certainly an interpretation.
• 

  tec

  But it is biblical that some of the laws weren't from God's morality, but were instead based on the limitations of the people. That is not an interpretation. That is black and white, as written in the words of Christ. As well, in one place God supposedly says that he'll punish children for the sins of their fathers to the third and fourth generation, and in another place he says that the son does not die for the sins of the father. Each is accountable for himself.

  However, we do know that children DO suffer for the sins of their fathers (racism, wars, etc)... but that is from natural consquence, not God punishing them. So either it is complete contradiction... or the people misinterpreted the first, thinking that it means God does that punishing, when it actually meant that it is a natural consequence. Now I choose the latter, based on my understanding of God, through Christ... and my understanding of human nature and how we so quickly forget something we are taught, to believe something else instead. Selective memory about history... and I believe it was terry who said that this happens in the south, with the people think the civil war wasn't about slavery.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  NewChapter

  This is just more to support the point. When I read exactly what is written---then I am wrong because I have not attempted to interpret the writing. And then the believer immediately reinterprets what is written---and amazingly it fits in perfectly with their current moral code.

  So the same activity has been twisted to not only fit in with the morality of the bronze age---but with a simple wave of a wand now fits in with today's morality.

  These topics tend to make me dizzy---my brain just can't do those kinds of gymnastics anymore.

  NC
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  EntirelyPossible

  But it is biblical that some of the laws weren't from God's morality, but were instead based on the limitations of the people. That is not an interpretation. That is black and white, as written in the words of Christ.

  Which laws, specifically?