Is Biblical Morality Situational, Based Upon the Arbitrary Whims of Yahweh?

by leavingwt 268 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  mP

  @tec

  you dont understand there two promises, the first covenant being with abraham and the jewish people. it says they will have the promised land. the second covenant to everyone is about global paradise as taught by jws. they are completely separate. you are confused. lastly the second covenant is not to be found in thr bible, someone in nyc made it up!

  if i am wrong show me.

  btw are you aware how testaments were made back in olden times ? men would literaaly grab the other mans testicle. the test in testament comes from testicle. we can find several examples where abraham himself asks his servant to do this in genesis, when he instructs him to return to his family and get a wife for isaac.

  you have no idea what the ot is about. we both have no idea because we live in a very different world and culture.
• 

  Vidqun

  Here I have to come in and defend the Jews, even though not being one myself. Individual Jews did stand out, and still stand out as special. Here specifically Albert Einstein comes to mind. The Nazis were so busy stiring up hatred agaist the Jews, they missed out on some important Jewish discoveries. According to Encyclopaedia Brittanica t he rising Nazi movement found a convenient target in relativity, branding it “Jewish physics” and sponsoring conferences and book burnings to denounce Einstein and his theories. If one studies the events that lead to the development of the atomic bomb, one notices that quite a few Jewish scientists contributed. Here J.R. Oppenheimer comes to mind. Just as well, if the Nazis produced the bomb first, it would have changed the course of history for the worse.

  If God is indeed all-powerful (= the Almighty) he would have steered events in a certain direction. And yes, as the Creator, God could have utilized genetics to some extent for his will to take place. He did choose Jacob above Esau even before they were born (cf. Gen. 29:3). Also Ps. 139:13-16 makes for some interesting reading in that regard. As seen God did choose the Jews. They were entrusted with His sacred pronouncements (Rom. 3:1, 2). Later he rejected them because of their disobedience.

  As the Creator, God's morality would be different from ours. Ps. 139:17 says: "So to me how difficult your thoughts are! O God, how much do the grand sum of them amount to?" A similar thought is contained at Rom. 11:33.
• 

  mP

  @vidqun

  where does the bible say god rejected the jews and why? there is no scripture, your justrepeating what was invented many years later and is just commentary.

  im sorry how is ps 139 about abrahams covenant, it mentions neither? your assumptions and connections are blatantly false. most of the pslams are copies of egyptian poetry with minor if any changes. thefe are quite a few books and articles that show the source to be hymns composed by akhanetan who admired the sun. the jews simply copied these writings and replaced aten with jehovah. im ot sure if you are aware that jehovah is simply nature, the moon and sun. countless scriptures literally say that. its modern xians that insist on anthromorphise him into a person like individual.

  your commentary about einstein and nazi ideology demonstarts or relates to the bibke in what way? that entire paragraph is completely noise and irrelevant to the discussion about the ot assertion of abrahams covenant being racist. so some jews worked on the bomb, so what, there were lots of peoples working, i fail to see jwo that is in anyway a biblical commentary.
• 

  mP

  @vidqun

  ps 139 is clearly a poem by a man talking about himself and other stuff. there is no way any of the --mes-- are the jewish person. there are many examples in the text that highlight this about an individual.

  to imply this about the abrahamic covenant is completely decietful and twisted. you really need to correct this citation or admit your wrong by referencing this and attaching your comments.
• 

  Vidqun

  MP, earlier the thread touched upon genetics (see Sebastious, p. 3). This is a continuation thereof, my opinion of course. The thread also touched on David (p. 2 of the thread). Better late than never. Psalm 139 is a Psalm of David, touching on genetics, with David as its author, believe it or not. The Egyptian angle is new to me.

  By the way, my opinion of Solomon, he had it all and he blew it big time. Where was I? Now we get to Abraham and the covenant. Jacob and Esau, again the genetic angle, comes in here. God chose Jacob even before he was born, and concluded the covenant with him (see my comment on this page, i.e., p. 13).

  Where does the Bible say God rejected the Jews? Try these, no lesser authority than Jesus himself: Matt. 21:42-44; 23:37, 38; Luk. 13:34, 35. There’s an interesting one in Zechariah (11:10, 14). The covenant with the Jews will be annulled (CSBO, ESV, NET). Daniel (9:27a) is also a good one if you believe in the Messianic fulfilment of Dan. 9.

  Sorry if I confused you.
• 

  mP

  @vidqun

  search for hymn of aten on wiki

  sorry the first mt scripture might match your thoughts but its not very clear, the remaining scriptures are bunk. the lk text is very strange, i fail too see how it makes sense. how could some jews in the audience be responible for killing a few prophets, whivh prophets, i dont recall any story in the ot of a prophet getting killed.
• 

  tec

  im sorry abraham did not have much faith, he let not one but two kings have tneir way with sarah his sister. in the case of npharoah he eventually told him they were married after which he was paid as c ompensation. is thast an example of faith? pimping your sister becsuse your so called god was too weak todo anything to help? the strange thing is exact same thing happened to abimalech(sp). so thats basically two examples of weak or non existant faith. you have been reading too msny porkies from the wts and ignoring the story oresented in genesis. read the bible dont believe what others tell you.

  You keep changing things, and moving from point to point. Do you want the scripture that shows the covenant being drawn between Abraham and God, based on his faith, credited to him as righteousness. That is written. Anything else is e e xtrapolation . It is what you WANT to read into it, not what is there.

  Also, I will ask you the same questions that I asked Still. If this was about racism, then how is it that anyone of any race (strangers, not Israel) could join them and share in the promises of the covenant? As well, how is it that we are shown that people of every tribe and every nation are invited into the kingdom?

  you have been reading too msny porkies from the wts and ignoring the story oresented in genesis. read the bible dont believe what others tell you.

  I don't know what a porkie is, but I never joined the jw's. So thinking that I am following their teachings and cannot think for myself is a little off. I have read the bible. I am not certain that you are remembering what you have read correctly, or why would I have pointed out your confusion about the Caananite woman, the Samaritan woman by the well, and the unclean woman who touched Christ to be healed of her bleeding. You said Christ and his disciples were angry. That is something you read into it, not something that is there. You said that Christ said women are beneath men, but he makes no such statement, not by his actions or by his words.

  So who are you listening to, to state these things as fact, or accuse Christ of being and promoting racism?

  I am also wondering how you say that we cannot understand the OT, but then you state that your understanding of it is correct, and my thoughts on the things actually written (promise made according to the faith of Abraham) are wrong?

  I am looking at Christ and his life and teachings. I know there are all sorts of sites out there that look for things to find wrong about him. I have seen them. Sometimes I think people are so eager to find fault, that they will latch on to any idea presented as if there IS fault. Never mind what is actually written or said.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  sabastious

  Regardless of when this occured...even if it was today...how would you feel if you asked for gods help and were snubbed because YOU weren't a Jew or from the house of Israel or whatever you want to call it? And...what would YOU call that behaviour?

  Every human being on this planet has the ability to connect with God however it requires discovery. The Hebrews were part of God's plan, but that doesn't mean that the Incas or Native American's didn't have a means to get to God. They had to invent it themselves however which they did.

  John 10 -14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

  Jesus speaks of "pens" (setup walls) which goes along with my unnatural selection theory (another scripture for you EP). That segregation was achieved by destroying one's enemies or simply evolving with a bunch of space to yourself. All religions that were created with the idea in mind to search for a medium to connect to one's creator are true.

  -Sab
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  Vidqun

  Matt. 23:35 mentions: "that there may come upon you all the righteous blood spilled on earth from Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. Truly I say to you, All these tings will come upon this generation." Here I think he is referring to 2 Chron. 24:20-22. As far as I know, a lot of the prophets were persecuted, some killed. In those days the work of a prophet was not easy. So much for their morality.

  Ps 104 is compared to the Song of Aten. I see the Psalm is not accredited to anybody. So, they might have borrowed some of the information from the Egyptians, who knows? Solomon again, was definitely involved in sun worship. He was married to an Egyptian princess, amongst others. He also collected horses and women, both against Jewish law. I guess he thought of himself as above the law (as king) and he could do whatever he wanted. Later Israelites also worshipped the sun (Ez. 8:16). There is an illusion to sun worship at 2 Kings 23:11. One book, Israelite Religions, mentioned: "The sun deity was subsumed by Yahweh, who took on its characteristics. The actual symbol of the sun disk became a later symbol in the Judean monarchy." So Biblical morality would not be established overnight. It would develop slowly over the years.
• 

  mP

  @tec

  i understand the bible just fine, i refer to scriptures all the time. you point to scriptures that in no way back your arguments. terms like other sheep etc can be twisted to mean anything. the texts you provide in no way are obvious they are filled with allegory, symbolism and confusion. many religions use those texcts and tell completely different interpretations.

  lastly i dont blame the jews of today fgor anything. we are all individuals who are only responsible fgor our own actions. to blame anyone for something an ancestor did many hundreds or thousands of years ago, is absurd and stupid. such mindset is outdated.

  i know and accept that god made a covenant with abraham. the question is why. you answered faith. i then presented the case of abraham pimping sarah twice, the pharaohh and abimilech because he was scared or unable to call jehovah. there is no example of faith by abraham anywhere in the ot. you are just making that up or assuming. the bible said david was righteous and he was a homocidal maniac, that word doesnt mean faith.

  i have already established jesus was racist, you keep telling me about the new covenant. you have not acknmowledged jesus was prejudiced and racist on several occassions as demonstrated by several scriptures. he was a jew, they were arrogant ppl back then tyo say the least. josephus tells they refused to eat, etc with gentiles.

  lastly you have failed to show where the new cvovenant is established in the bhible, in black n white.