NC - its nice to see you. I have been missing all my atheist friends.
Just wanted to say...
by tec 90 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
soft+gentle
and yes tec JWN is a good place to be.
-
NewChapter
We are talking about people who worshipped after different gods, NC. Paul did not condemn them or tear down their 'altars'. The altars had no meaning in any case. He simply witnessed to Christ, and the Father OF Christ. People heard, or refrained.
I see. Sorry I missed your point.
Pagans and their alters: Tolerable.
Women: Not so much. Now shut up and stop trying to teach people who may be men. --Peace and Love from Paul, The Tolerant.
-
FlyingHighNow
I agree that what is attributed to Paul is pretty hard on women. And like you, NC, I think it's a hard pill I don't think we need to swallow. I think half that stuff is just things they made up anyway. The writers and translators. I am not saying there is no truth in the Bible, but you can see where it is used to manipulate both men and women into submission.
-
elderelite
Now if only we knew which half was made up and which half was "true"....
-
FlyingHighNow
Now if only we knew which half was made up and which half was "true"....
I don't think we have to know down to the very word. But I weigh it all against 1 John 4:8 and 1 Corinthians:4-8. If it isn't love or loving, it is not truth.
-
tec
Or measure against Christ. He is the one to whom we are to listen. He is the Word of God. He did not tell women to keep silent; he did in fact engage women in discussion, had female disciples, praised a woman for choosing to listen, rather than engage in 'traditional' female activities (cooking and waiting on the men), and it was women who saw and spoke to him first after he rose, and carried that good news back to the men.
We know from other author's letters that people twisted things in Paul's writings, and should keep this in mind. As well, reading some parts of Paul's letters is like listening to one side of a telephone conversation. You have no idea what might be going on on the other end. There are also scholars who believe that part (women should be silent) is a later addition, because it is out of sync with the flow and content of that letter.
Just some things to ponder about Paul.
Peace,
tammy
-
myelaine
dear Tammy...
if you follow your line of reasoning Jesus didn't REALLY "concern" Himself with things like slavery, does that mean TO YOU that that is tolerable in His eyes?
As well...Jesus said: "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father". As a perfect reflection of the Father wouldn't you HAVE to believe that the God of the OT didn't concern Himself with the tearing down of altars either...and therefore the many OT accounts of such a command coming from God are a complete lie?...
When God said "thou shall have no other Gods before me", did He mean that He wants to be the first in a long line of gods, or He doesn't want to see any other Gods tolerated (and celebrated) by His chosen people?
love michelle
-
tec
if you follow your line of reasoning Jesus didn't REALLY "concern" Himself with things like slavery, does that mean TO YOU that that is tolerable in His eyes?
But He also did not own any slaves. HE came to serve US.
He commanded us to love one another, and to love one another as HE loved us. Love does not dominate one's neighbor... or one's enemy... by forcibly enslaving them.
The only time Christ ever told his followers to leave a place was if they were not welcomed by the people there. I (and everyone else) am welcome on this place as long as the owner of this place allows it.
Yet, even if one was not welcome, would they not still be permitted to love? In fact, the command is TO love even one's enemies (not enemies because you have decided they are enemies... but because people have decided to make you theirs)
Truth sheds light upon and destroys falsehood all on its own. Truth is the light that casts away the darkness.
As well...Jesus said: "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father". As a perfect reflection of the Father wouldn't you HAVE to believe that the God of the OT didn't concern Himself with the tearing down of altars either...and therefore the many OT accounts of such a command coming from God are a complete lie?...
Many commands in the OT are not from God, though they are attributed to Him. I do look to Christ (as the Truth and Image of God) to see God. No matter what that might say about writings in the OT. The OT is not the Truth or Image of God.
When God said "thou shall have no other Gods before me", did He mean that He wants to be the first in a long line of gods, or He doesn't want to see any other Gods tolerated (and celebrated) by His chosen people?
So if you are one of His people, then do not worship any other 'gods'. Listen to and follow the One who God commanded us to follow: His Son. Everyone is invited... no one is forced. Not by Christ, God, and certainly not by those who belong to them.
Peace,
tammy
-
myelaine
dear Tammy...
so it only means don't worship any other gods if you are one of His people...and so that all that tearing down other altars was unneccesary and possibly no even a command from God?
Let me suggest that in accordance with scripture, God absolutely detested the presence of other gods in the midst of His people and where ever He directed them, His servants were commanded to tear down altars...and they did such a thing wholeheartedly BECAUSE they didn't just give lip service, but they worshipped Him in SPIRIT AND TRUTH. Their spirit detested the very things that God detested. john 4:24
Jesus said, "he who HAS My commands AND keeps them, it is he who loves ME". john 14:21
1 kings 18:21
love michelle