by doinmypart 473 Replies latest jw friends
justmom - its just cheating to pretend that atheists are only capable of doing good because of a god they don't beleive in. You are assuming what you need to prove. First you need to show that Jesus isn't a pile of moldering bones in a long-forgotten common grave in Palestine. Then you can start to build a case for theism.
James - will PM you
justmom wrote:
If one is demonstrating/practicing.....
Love, kindness, mercy, joy, peace, long-suffering, forgiveness, compassion, pity, faith, mildness, self-control ...one is hearing/feeling God
Exhibiting the above list of behavior is not objective evidence to demonstrate that a person hears or feels God. If a person exhibits the above list of behavior, there are many possible reasons why he/she is behaving that way. There is no evidence to show that God is the required explanation for this behavior.
Dear Cofty
Who or what you decide to attribute the qualities you display in your life that allows you to sleep at nite is really entirely up to you. I am in no
way your judge. I would not "want" to try to make you a believer any more than I would want you to make me an "unbeliever." I respect that
is your choice. I spent my whole life trying to "make" people believe what I had was the truth. Not anymore though.
Now if anyone out there is asking I share what I have been shown and told. It is entirely up to them what they do with it. I love them no matter what!
thanks for sharing your thoughts
justmom
I would not "want" to try to make you a believer any more than I would want you to make me an "unbeliever."
I was an evangelical for 9 years after I left the borg. Bene there, done that, grew out of it.
How do work out that not believing in god has to do with helping me sleep at night?
Indian Larry> I too can recall the countless meetings with the elders as a teenager. I wasn't baptized so it was always one of those 'we're concerned about you' type meetings. Wasn't really a big part of my life and by no means was I endorsing (nor condemning) the use of huge joint in order to experience any divine entity. But a picture is worth a thousand words...brevity - I'm a big fan of it.
I get your point about lurkers as well. I think most adults can filter out what they want to see. But your point is taken.
That being said, the whole notion of 'feeling or hearing' an impersonal, indifferent entity that has no instantiation in reality is, to me, like trying to instantiate into reality the floating teapot now circling the earth. The 'keep knocking' and having people tell you that you are not 'hearing' correctly or you're not 'listening' correctly is not insightful nor helpful as all the teapot wants is a cup to pour tea into. - Cheers
Cofty
not quite understanding ?
You mentioned you demonstrate all the qualities mentioned although not believing in God.....
So then whatever it is that is your driving force behind the reasons you do show love etc... then you GO!!!!!!
Great! Then we sleep like babies when we feel good about these things right? (figure of speech)
Like I mentioned, although our driving force may differ, we still drive, RIGHT? lol
Love justmom
But you asserted that atheists can only show love because of the god they don't believe in.
How so?
The reason we behave (well some of us) is down to empathy. Most people cannot kill. Well known problem in wars that one. First war they found people would shoot to miss. It is a bugger. Until they killed the first one.
Anyway, if your empathy is normally developed you do not harm other people because you can feel and understand the pain they can. It also drives us to do good. Empathy does not need god to explain it. It has worked from an evolutionary perspective and so we have it. Or at least to different degrees. I feel sorry for those who need a god to give them the notion of what is right and wrong as they must be have pretty low innate empathy.
Maybe religions survival as a meme has resulted in the need for empathy to wain over generations being replaced by genes that code for obedience and selfishness (you behave because god tells you too and you will be rewarded)
Now there is a thought - the presence of religion and belief has acted as a selection agent against genes coding for greater empathy in the population, thus making the religion meme more likely to survive in the population. Ironic indeed. Perhaps as the selection process continues those with genes that predispose them to hearing voices will also have a better chance of passing on their genes? So to answer the original poster, there may be no hope that you will ever hear or feel god but if you have children with some of the luckier ones on this board your future generations will also have that gift.
Cofty
There is a driving force that motivates you to demonstrate these qualites. Whether it IS a God or just something God-like in you, because isn't it written "God IS LOVE" so "LOVE IS GOD" you are making the world a better place. Let your Love/Light shine. I'm happy with that.
justmom
Love is not god.
It is insulting to millions of atheists when you claim they cannot love their families and neighbours without your god.
