Why I truly come in! (page 5)

Qcmbr

Sab - To be fair I probably wound EP up because he was asking a serious question and you lured me into larking about with your Death Star siren call.

Sorry EP!

Miles3

@Sab

[They] are not just non believers, they are (GASP!) ATHEISTS

Run for cover! Those monstruosities worship facts and so-called reality, betraying their vile instincts.

Also, remember, when an atheist replies to one of your posts and pretends it isn't supported by evidence, he is attacking not only your FAITH, but your whole BEING, thus deserving of the worst retaliation and false accusations any God-fearing Christian can come up with. They want to deprive people of their eternal life! That amounts to murder, and they should be harrased for it. Such wretched creatures also pretend to ask questions, not because they're looking for an answer, but because they want you to THINK! They know that a thinking mind is a field day for the Devil - would a loving God want you to think?

@Justmom

Nice to hear your story, and that you made the most of it outside the cult. 3 boys must have been a handful!

Nice to see you're not like the few resident fondamentalists in JWN, you'll notice there's plenty of decent believers. I found jgnat and dogpatch some of the best posters, we need more of them. Especially because their calm insight, down to earth attitude about life and their love for their fellow human being is refreshing compared to some of the abuse fondamentalists have been spouting recently.

justmom

Hey Guys and Dolls...

Thank you so much for all the encouragement.

But I need to say.......

I spend 30 some years in that organization. Pioneered with three boys on my back or in a cargroup (lol) Remember The organization TAUGHT us and PREPARED us for any and all opposition towards our faith FROM THE SO-CALLED WORLD. Pioneering in Los Angeles for years with my mom, we saw and heard a lot of it. So if anything that should have made of tougher!?

The ONLY thing different NOW is that its not coming from the so-called world we "thought" was the world. Is this where what is written is understood? "A persons enemies would be those of his own household?" Matthew 10:36

just wondering

justmom

sabastious

The ONLY thing different NOW is that its not coming from the so-called world we "thought" was the world. Is this where what is written is understood? "A persons enemies would be those of his own household?" Matthew 10:36

What a great way to put it. The Watchtower are unwittingly part of a larger framework that always existed even before them. The Adversary exists on all planes and that's why my blood family will no longer have anything to do with me. Because they are duped that the Watchtower is actually apart from the world when in fact they are intertwined with the governments and corperations more so than most organizations. They serve the god of greed and power which is the Adversary of truth.

-Sab

Qcmbr

How do we converse further Sab if your summation of me is as an emissary of Satan. Surely you must reject everyting I say?

sabastious

How do we converse further Sab if your summation of me is as an emissary of Satan. Surely you must reject everyting I say?

Our dialog in regards to faith will be conflictual, yes. But I don't reject everything you say, that's just a generalization. I reject your idea that faith is mind rot. Any idea that stems from that false idea are equally false and also offensive. I find your ideas about the universe and existence interesting, but I find myself having to peel away the bias of your world view. I'm sure you feel the same about what I say. Don't get me wrong I find much enlightenment in what you say.

I think you could do well to further understand the conflictual nature of your world view with intent on refining it. Any time you inquire about someone's faith you have the opportunity to be disingenuous because you don't really ever believe any faith has a chance against the scientific method. You are like a person at a slot machine where every pull has been a winner. You have strong evidence that the machine pays out 100% of the time, but you cannot be totally sure because you cannot pull the slot forever. Because you have seen enough evidence you assert that the machine most likely is a 100% payout machine. When someone else informs you that it might not be true you use the preponderance of the evidence to discredit their assertion. If they insist that they are right you resort to ridicule which just means that this person's conviction is a threat to your conclusion. The evidence should speak for itself so no ridicule should be necessary.

-Sab

EntirelyPossible

Why do you athiests post on these post's? Is it because you haven't outgrown pulling pigtails in the playground so come here to do it?

I am asking honest questions. If you do not like, well, so be it.

Sab is telling people I am just trying to tear down their faith, telling people I am trying to lay a trap when all I have done is what the OP suggested, ask questions. I did not say anything to or about Sab and, unprovoked, like a child that can't let the adults talk, has to insert himself into a conversation that is not in any way about him.

Much like Sab, you resort immediately to name calling. Jesus would be ashamed of you. Where is the Christian love, the help for someone honeslty asking questions?

EntirelyPossible

And please, feel free to say what a horrible person I am in absentia. I have things to go do. I will not be here to defend myself. It's your golden chance.

sabastious

-Sab

Qcmbr

Hmm - I'm pretty sure you initially suggested that I'm serving ' the god of greed and power which is the Adversary of truth' which seems hard to square with ' I don't reject everything you say'. Personally I'm happy to be categorised as such but only because it doesn't carry much emotional weight. It just seems that this prejudice precludes really ever understanding anything because you would always seem to have to decide if I was simply telling half truths in order to deceive (the normal modus operandi of the christian devil?)

I do find that faith (simple definition - belief sans evidence) is a less effective route to knowledge and I wonder why I ever thought it was a virtue. I do find that faith to be a form of mind rot (i.e. reduces the ability to critically think) because it rejects a fundamental feature of sceptical enquiry (evidence.) Now if you'd like to redefine faith as the hope in something based upon evidence suggested elsewhere I could meet you on common ground (though I'd use the term inference instead) because it is such thinking that allows experiments to be conducted to find phenomenom that haven't been observed (like the Higgs Bosun.) I think religious faith however, isn't backed by an initial set of provable starting points but seems to infinitely regress to itself. Now faith may indeed sometimes get it right by coincidence or heuristic intuition (the Mormon avoidance of tobacco based upon a revelation and adhered to by faith has been found to be right by solid scientific evidence but faith also allowed mormons to be utterly socially racist) but that is correct outcomes from unsound starting points.

As a sceptic (every theist is atheistic to everyone else's god(s)) I do want to promote the use of sceptical enquiry methods which privilege information over imagination, testing over revelation, peer review over conversion and constant doubt over absolute certainty.

edit: I guess maybe I do represent Satan. I would definately tell you to try the apple. shrugs.

Why I truly come in!

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