America Will Execute Brit Today.

by Englishman 91 Replies latest jw friends

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Logical: Your statements are very uninformed at the very least: Hope this helps.....

    System is fair, just; no to a moratorium
    By DUDLEY SHARP III
    There have been a great many attacks against both Texas and the United States because of our use of the death penalty for our most vile criminals. Such attacks are unwarranted.
    The complaint that Texas executes too many murderers is a straw man. Those who oppose execution do so regardless of the numbers involved. From sentencing to execution, Texas now takes nearly 13 years to execute capital murderers, a period of time longer than the national average. In addition, Texas has a 15 percent rate of overturning those cases on appeal, a rate less than half of the national average of 33 percent. Far from any rush to judgment, what we see in Texas is a careful and reflective effort to seek justice in these most difficult of cases.
    Nationally, there is a growing movement to have moratoriums on the death penalty. As the anti-death penalty movement has made clear, such is but a prelude to getting rid of the death penalty. Nationally, that time is now about 12 years from sentence to execution. A time extension is hardly merited.
    Concern for innocents convicted and racism appear to be two main issues within the moratorium movement.
    Uncorroborated claims by the anti-death penalty movement find that 90 inmates have been exonerated since the beginning of the modern death penalty in 1973. A careful review of those cases shows that no distinction has been made between the factual innocence (the truly, "I didn't do it" cases) and the legally innocent (the "I got off because of legal issues").
    Big difference. By various anti-death penalty sources, it appears that the factual innocent convicted are really in the 20-40 range, or approximately 0.4 percent of the 7,000 sentenced to death since 1973. It is unlikely that there is any other criminal sanction in the world that has a better record of convicting the guilty and in identifying and freeing the allegedly factually innocent.
    Many of the world's social and government institutions put innocents at risk. Yet, I am aware of only one -- the U.S. death penalty -- that has no proof of an innocent executed since 1900. Paroles, probations, pretrial releases and mandatory releases have resulted in hundreds of thousands of innocents being harmed or killed while such criminals were under "supervision." Most recently, and historically, we also note the terror and death visited upon innocent citizens by those criminals who escape from prison. It appears that there are many other pressing criminal justice practices which put many more innocents at risk and which do, in fact, result in extraordinary loss of life.
    In fact, under all debated scenarios, many more innocents would be put at risk by not executing.
    Historically, charges of racism with the U.S. criminal justice have been accurate. But not so with the modern death penalty. White murderers are twice as likely to be executed as are black murderers and are also executed 15 months more quickly than black death row inmates. A 1991 Rand Corp. study, a 1994 Smith College study, as well as a review of murders within capital circumstances, reveals that the foundation for being sentenced to death is the crime itself.
    Finally, there is the external criticism which we receive from foreign nations, primarily from Europe. A recent article from the liberal New Republic confirms that the majority of the European population does support executions for vile crimes. So those European nations which condemn us do so from a nondemocratic position, with regard to that sanction. Furthermore, the European Union, a force for uniting European countries into a united economic bloc, requires abandonment of execution as a requirement for benefiting from EU membership. However, there is no ban to executions during wartime. In other words, the EU has no position to criticize U.S. use of executions, for they do exactly as do we -- that is, select execution as a punishment option under a very limited circumstance.
    While improvements can be made to any system, such should be studied within the light of fact, not shrouded by the false claims of those whose goal is to abolish the death penalty.

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Logi and Thi Chi (Englishman sighs in frustration)

    Do we have to go into this patriotic fervour once again? In case neither have you have noticed, the UK and US have been allies for many years and it is in each countries best interests to get on well with the other one.

    It would be nice to have a reasonable debate without all the inflammatory stuff, we have all heard it dozens of times. This is about the death penalty, not about which country does the most for the other.

    Englishman.

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Englishman:

    Logical has made some claims regarding the US that I would like to offer another viewpoint on. Is that Ok?

    Logical made some claims regarding the fairness of the DP in the US. I have offered a rebuttal. Is that ok? No flames, just some facts......is that OK? Disinformation just buggs the heck out of me (being an ex JW, I hope you can understand). Plus, I love a good debate!

  • r51785
    r51785
    He will be the next in a line of a few billion executed by the Americans

    Obviously the Americans are running out of people to execute. I understand they are coming to BVI next!

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    51785: Then this is proof that DP is working.....hehee

  • blindfool
    blindfool

    Not that it really matters, just thought those overseas might find it interesting.
    I do some business with the prison where this execution will take place. Its a beautiful setting with a lake and green grass surrounding a huge facility.
    To enter the prison you must be seached and go through a metal detector, all of your belonging including breifcases and catalogs are searched. You must give the guard your drivers licence and car keys and you collect them on your way out. No cell phones or pagers are allowed inside the prison.
    The entire prisons sits behind a aprox. 50 foot burm and you enter the prison from a tunnel.
    Its feels alot better coming out than going in,thats for sure.
    No sales visits are allowed during weeks when an execution is scheduled.

    By the way the Georgia procedure for administering the death penality was changed last year from the electric chair to letal injection.

    I'm not sure what the state of Georgia did with their electric chair, known as "old sparky."

  • Englishman
    Englishman

    Thi Chi,

    Fair comment, you were getting seriously wrong info from Logi.

    Re the death penalty, I have unpleasant memories of when it was in force in the UK. Although there were normally only a handful of hangings each year, my school teacher would make us sit and pray at the minute of execution if one occured during term-time. This was always at 9 am. We kids had nightmares for days in advance, because execution was comparitively rare even in the 50's and 60's, the media coverage was always saturation stuff. http://www.murderfile.co.uk/

    Englishman.

  • 144thousand_and_one
    144thousand_and_one

    Two wrongs don't make a right, and I am embarrassed that our country has not only overwhelmingly embraced the death penalty, but has also elected a man who as Governor of Texas presided over more executions than any other governor in our history.

    Many people might question the propriety of the death penalty if they understood that justice has nothing to do with it. For example, OJ Simpson was charged with a "special circumstances" crime, multiple killings, that made him eligible for the death penalty. Marcia Clark, one of the attorneys who represented the State, stated that seeking the death penalty against OJ wouldn't be "just." Why not? Assuming he was guilty, no one could have been more deserving. This wasn't some poor kid robbing a store to feed his family, instead, it was a guy who had everything but was accused of killing anyway. No, it wasn't "just" because Ms. Clark knew that it would be hard for the public to stomach the killing of one of its heroes.

    The reality is that capital defendants who lack money are at big disadvantage when fighting for their life against the goverment. The prosecution has unlimited investigative resources, while state funded defense budgets have extremely meager investigative resources and no access to the police as an investigative tool. Public defenders are overburdenened with an overload of cases and a shortage of personnel. The decision to seek the death penalty is entirely political and based on the district attorney's assessment of whether the death penalty could indeed be attained, notwithstanding issues of guilt or innocence. Poor folks are shit out of luck.

    For those of you who think that executing innocent defendants is ok if there are only a few instances of it, I'm sure your opinion might be different if you or someone you love were one of those innocent individuals.

    Arguments that jailing capital defendants for life is too costly simply don't make sense. The average cost of executing someone has been said to approximate $4 million per defendant. The cost of housing them runs about $30K/year. It's cheaper to jail them.

    I have no pity for most of these defendants as I tend to believe they deserve what they get. Nevertheless, it's not about the scum we are executing, rather, it's about what we are allowing that scum to turn us into. Recent trends in this country indicate that the public opinion supporting the death penalty is starting to diminish, and I hope we continue on the path of evolving to a higher consciousness.

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Englishman: Thanks for your background and feelings on this subject. Please believe me when I say I support DP, I do so with many reservations and mixed feelings. Who wants to see any human die?

    Also, I want to express my appreciation for all the posts and threads you make on this site. You are truly valued!

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    144,001:

    ""The complaint that Texas executes too many murderers is a straw man. Those who oppose execution do so regardless of the numbers involved. From sentencing to execution, Texas now takes nearly 13 years to execute capital murderers, a period of time longer than the national average. In addition, Texas has a 15 percent rate of overturning those cases on appeal, a rate less than half of the national average of 33 percent. Far from any rush to judgment, what we see in Texas is a careful and reflective effort to seek justice in these most difficult of cases.
    Nationally, there is a growing movement to have moratoriums on the death penalty. As the anti-death penalty movement has made clear, such is but a prelude to getting rid of the death penalty. Nationally, that time is now about 12 years from sentence to execution. A time extension is hardly merited.""

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