Conti update article: "Watchtower Loses Conti Appeal - But Fights On"

by cedars 147 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

  • Refriedtruth
    Refriedtruth

    NEW 1st paid ad

    W hy this is the good news is that the plaintiff law firms are 'using' the Conti case as a precedent to groom more suits.There may be a whole rash of lawyer advertisements coming up like you see (in magazines and on TV) over asbestos and the bad drugs,.....

    I am so happy!

    Thank you Conti's.

    High rank will make Watchtower legal squirm.

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/9/prweb9933137.htm LINK

    Plaintiff Awarded $28 Million in Jehovah's Witness Child Molestation ...

    PR Web (press release) -

    ... California jury awarded $28 million in damages to Candace Conti who said the Jehovah's Witnesses allowed an adult member of a Fremont,

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    The appeal judge may increase the award above the $11M.

    I don't think the appeal judge(s) can do that, George. The punitive damages were decided by jury and they maxed it out. The judge reduced the punitive damages on condition that the Plaintiff was happy about it or else a jury would have to reconsider the amount. Seeing as the Plaintiff is happy with the new figure, it's fixed ... unless the Defendants/Appellants can squash it altogether.

    It looks like the bond has added about 50% to the total amount. It'll be a generous buffer to allow for any cumulative interest, I'm guessing, based on a typical length of time for the appeal process to go through.

    That's how I understand it. Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong about any of that.

  • BroMac
    BroMac

    does the bond allow them to sell properties again?

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    I would presume so.

  • 144001
    144001

    <<<< My use of the word "appeal" in this case relates to the denial of a "judgment notwithstanding verdict" (JNOV), or an appeal from the Watchtower for the judge to overrule the jury verdict. I assumed this was obvious. I'm sorry you find it misleading. Please bear in mind that I write my articles to be understood by everyone , not just those with a legal background who understand what JNOV is. However, I will create a footnote in my article to explain that the title refers to the motion for JNOV being denied to reflect your observation, which I appreciate.>>>>

    Why stop there? Why not post an article about the WTBTS admitting that it's been operating a scam for more than a century, and then footnoting it that what really happened is that someone who is a rank and file JW made that admission?

    The title of the article is dishonest. Period. No appeal has been heard by the court yet. Motions are not appeals.

    <<<< However, the fact that the Watchtower attorneys seem hopelessly detached from the seriousness of the issues involved, as demonstrated thus far, gives good reason for hope of a successful outcome for Candace.>>>>

    Really? And what do you know about the WT attorneys? Losing the case does not mean they are "hopelessly detached from the seriousness of the issues involved," and I've seen nothing else that supports this conclusion.

    <<<< If you need any reminder of just how "out of touch" the Watchtower lawyers are, I would encourage you to watch the YouTube videos of Rick Simons recounting the case - specifically the part where the WT lawyers are questioning Candace over the number of times she suffered abuse.>>>>

    Mr. Simons has won a hard fought battle against these lawyers that took years to fight. He is an advocate, and by definition, he is not objective. Unless we can read the deposition transcripts or watch a videotaped deposition, Mr. Simon's recounting of the deposition is not without question. Moreover, the questions asked at a deposition are intended to be very broad and far in excess of the scope of questions that are used at trial. Judging the WT lawyers over a few deposition questions is naive.

    <<<<Ms Conti and her team are by no means naive to the hurdles ahead of them, and I would suggest that anyone who assumes that they are without being aware of their plans are themselves being "foolish". FYI, my understanding is that Jackson Lewis is a law firm that specializes in appellate law for plaintiffs . The last time I checked, Watchtower was NOT the plaintiff in this case. And please don't assume that Rick Simons will be the only lawyer fighting for Candace during the appeal.>>>>

    I have certainly not referred to Mr. Simons or anyone on his team as "naive." They were brilliant and they beat a very large, successful law firm. But there are a lot of comments on this forum that demonstrate that there are many here who are in fact naive about the realities facing Ms. Conti and her counsel. Your comments about the Jackson Lewis firm illustrate my point. They don't "specialize" in appellate law for plaintiffs; they practice appellate law for both plaintiffs and defendants, and appellate law is not their specialty; they do it all.

    I have never assumed, suggested, or implied that Rick Simons will be the only lawyer fighting for Ms. Conti on her appeal. I'm confident that he did not work alone in obtaining the judgment he obtained, and now that he has a large judgment, it will be easy to find sidekicks to assist him in fighting the appeals. That will help, but it won't lessen the opponent he is facing or the substantial resources that they bring to the table.

    It's nice to be optimistic, but false information leads to false hopes. The WTBTS has not lost any appeals, and has actually achieved more success in its post trial motions than most losing defendants do. The title of your blog is false. Period.

  • kepler
    kepler

    140001,

    Interesting analysis of the appeal process and the obstacles.

    Now, given that a bond of $17,000.000 has been posted, what sort of war chest would be necessary to conduct a follow-up appeal to higher court or courts with a firm like Jackson Lewis? Something of the same order or significantly less?

    In posting the bond, I am not sure I understand how the monies are allocated. Is this to cover all those parties who were judged with fines or punitive damages or just the WTS itself?

    There was some speculation that the assets of the NY Corporations would be frozen until such time as the bond was posted. That suggests that the fees are being paid by assets already accrued by the WTS. But in some manner these costs will ultimately be passed on to the JW community as well. If we limit the analysis to the American congregations of roughly 1 million members ( a community about the size, coincidentally of a Roman Catholic archdiocese) , this action would cost $17.00 per head. More likely the community is made up of households of two or three members ( $34 or $51 per household). Moreover, in CA and AZ in late spring there was an out of court settlement involving five other parties... That would adjust the distributed costs higher.

    This might be out of date, but my old 1980s Funk & Wagnalis encyclopedia in its short article on "attorney" gives this description in its second paragraph:

    " An attorney at law is an officer of the court and as such is required, in the U.S. to take an oath of office binding him to the Federal Constitution and the constitution of the States wherein he resides. Usually a preliminary examination in general scholarship is required, followed by a clerking or apprenticeship, varying from one to two years, in the office of a practicing attorney, and the study of law at a law school, or in some States, under a practicing attorney. Finally, the applicant must pass an examination before he is admitted to the bar..."

    As can be seen from other forum topic discussions, being a JW attorney poses several doctrinal problems. The GB members preach against prolonged university study and to become a practicing attorney the law student must eventually take an oath. Some research indicates that the WTS law staff includes staff members who became attorneys before they became JWs - or it would appear. Ms. Carolyn Wah would be an example, since she has proudly cited her Catholic parochial school education elsewhere - suggesting a career route: don't be a born in, especially if you are a woman. But this also means that the WTS is hostage to market forces if they really want the representation required.

    So there is an additional hidden cost to posting a bond.

  • cedars
    cedars

    144001

    Why stop there? Why not post an article about the WTBTS admitting that it's been operating a scam for more than a century, and then footnoting it that what really happened is that someone who is a rank and file JW made that admission?

    The title of the article is dishonest. Period. No appeal has been heard by the court yet. Motions are not appeals.

    I'm sorry you feel that way, despite my inclusion of the footnote. I notice you're falling back to "slippery slope" argumentation rather than looking at this with a measure of perspective. I feel lay people (for whom the article is primarily written) will understand the gist of what is happening, especially once they read the footnote. I certainly don't feel that anyone will feel duped or misled once they have read the whole article in context. The very fact that I've made the Notice of Appeal available for download shows that I'm not in the business of misleading people, as you seem hell-bent on suggesting.

    You've voiced a few more assumptions about the case that I don't feel I need to correct at this stage. It will all be explained in due course. Suffice to say, you seriously underestimate the expertise that Candace Conti will be calling upon during the appellate phase. When I mention multiple lawyers, that doesn't necessarily mean two lawyers working for the same firm.

    It's a shame because I do appreciate your helpful correction regarding the header, but your overall tone is very bitter.

    Cedars

  • lisaBObeesa
    lisaBObeesa

    If they didn't lose an appeal, then the article should not say they lost an appeal.

    As 144,001 said, this is incorrect information. Words matter. I just read the headline and thought they had lost an appeal...almost called my mom to tell her...thank goodness I read a little more and found out they have not lost an appeal. That would have been embarrassing to have mom tell me I don't know what I'm talking about...! Or what if I started spreading around that incorrect info on the internet? People will find it to not be true and then you and I and all the people spreading the incorrect info from your headline lose all credibility...Then your article that you put so much work into ends up doing more damage than good. Using the correct words matters. Facts, facts, facts.

    It should say, "The Watchtower's motion for JNOV in the Conti Cas has been Denied, --Files Appeal of Verdict "...or something along those lines. Whatever it says, it must be factual and CLEAR because your blog is where so many people, myself included, are getting their information about this story.

    As can be seen from other forum topic discussions, being a JW attorney poses several doctrinal problems. The GB members preach against prolonged university study and to become a practicing attorney the law student must eventually take an oath. Some research indicates that the WTS law staff includes staff members who became attorneys before they became JWs - or it would appear. Ms. Carolyn Wah would be an example, since she has proudly cited her Catholic parochial school education elsewhere - suggesting a career route: don't be a born in, especially if you are a woman. But this also means that the WTS is hostage to market forces if they really want the representation required.

    I personally know of one person raised a JW who went to school for the expressed purpose of becomeing a lawyer for the Organization. I think, but I'm not totally sure, that the Org actually paid for his law school.

  • cedars
    cedars

    I've changed the title and some of the text of the article to reflect 144001's valid objections.

    I thank him again for his observations, if not necessarily for his attitude in giving them - particularly his insinuation that I am trying to mislead people.

    Hopefully by changing the title of the article I have reassured him somewhat of my motives.

    Cedars

  • lisaBObeesa
    lisaBObeesa

    (personally, I don't think your motives were ever in question...)

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit