Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

by Recovery 278 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  EndofMysteries

  O and Recovery, with those scriptures we are discussing right now and about resurrections, note how when speaking of the 1,000 year reign, it says the rest of the dead aren't resurrected UNTIL it's ended. Combine that w/ the Hebrews 9:27 that man dies ONCE THEN a judgement. It shows 1. there is no free ride like JW's teach that those who die before the great trib get vs those who happen to be alive. 2. That during the 1,000 year reign they are not being resurrected. It says when they are resurrected in Revelation, that books are opened and they are judged by what's written in them. The WT teaches that means a new bible. But on those scriptures of them being judged after the 1,000 years, it seems it's say the books are their life record and they are judged backed on what's written on their life record in there.

  Again I do not have 100% definite answers yet, since I am figuring out things such as why the river of life is described all those different ways. The point is I am seeking the truth and getting closer. The teachings we had were not it and it's been a dead standstill for a looooong time. If you read my post asking you questions and any other JW, you'll see some very likely reasons why there is never anything new. Maybe one minor change like the recent 'toes' in Daniel's prophecy, which wasn't really new light, since they taught that years ago then changed it, and now reverted back to an older teaching lol. And such a minor thing as well that doesn't make any difference.
• 

  Recovery

  The only thing I have to say for Band on the Run is.....tell someone who cares. The insults are old. The ad hominem attacks are boring. The stereotypical view of anyone who doesn't condemn the WT as a ravenous cult is boring. Of course my arguments and my debating skills are weak. Of course I'm not very smart, I'm brainwashed, I'm a hypocrite, and I'm sure a list of more derogatory terms could be made if I collected all the names I'm called here on a daily basis.

  Now can anyone answer the four questions. EndOfMysteries at least took a shot at it. I will not be replying to anymore comments in this thread that don't address the four questions. People are constantly trying to muddy the issue and confuse onlookers. And it's a poor attempt at that.
• 

  EndofMysteries

  I took a shot at it? I answered them and asked you questions.

  1.You are asking about the waters, you didn't answer which waters are the true ones, earthly, within you, or heavenly. So impossible to try to answer how they are lead to them unless you know which are the waters of life.

  Then I showed how the scriptures show that those with eternal life and whom death has lost it's grip are only described as those who are in heaven, who get spiritual bodies and made immortal. And asked if any scriptures show those being resurrected would be on earth and living on earth. All the scriptures about being resurrected seem to only be speaking about those resurrected as spirits. Can you list any scriptures showing an earthly resurrection and living on earth forever? If not, did not my answer show HOW the great crowd could be in heaven then?
• 

  rather be in hades

  once again, you don't like the answer and you've decided not to listen...what more is there to say?

  so that said...spirit directed organization that's somehow putting child molestors into positions of leadership...wanna explain that one?

  how about everything the watchtower society said about not having to turn in time, and all of that fun stuff?
• 

  EndofMysteries

  The only way I could think of how it could be earthly would be if Zephaniah and Ezekiel, that speak of the temple being on physical Earth. And Jehovah ruling from the temple. But then that causes all sorts of other questions too. And during those conditions it described don't match up with what we've been taught.
• 

  EndofMysteries

  I doubt he will answer anything, the questions I gave, or respond to the faithful and discreet slave post he did I just responded on. I've researched the WTLIB on everything I'm discussing with him. The only way he can respond is by thinking and using the bible, nothing in the WTLIB will address what I've presented. It's the truth in the bible and from it's own words. What he is trying to defend is based on speculations, speculations which will change in the future and be called as new light. Speculations which shouldn't have been there in the first place.
• 

  jwfacts

  Questions that have gone unanswered:

  How can the anointed, immortal anointed ones who are not subject to the physical realm and its effects experience these things in a FUTURE SENSE.

  How can those who are immortal be guided to the fountains of waters of life?

  How will they 'no longer hunger or thirst or experience the heat from the sun' anymore when they have HEAVENLY, SPIRITUAL, IMMORTAL BODIES?

  How WILL God wipe out every tear from their eyes when they are already in heaven with incorruptible, immortal spiritual bodies?

  This has been addressed, but if someone has an opinion other than your own you claim you have not been answered. I am blown away by how simplistic your thinking is. Do you really believe Revelation to be literal? I am sure you do not think the beasts to be literal, so why do you apply your literal/figurative magic wand inconsistently. You have heard of the term anthropomorphological. God is described this way in the Bible, so why can't other heavenly beings? The Watchtower has written 5 books to explain Revelation, each vastly contradictory of the previous one. This shows they have no idea and no guidance in interpretation. You think applying grade one logic to Revelation means you are correct. Your lines of reasoning soon fall apart, as soon as you try to move on through Revelation with the same simplistic approach.
• 

  tootired2care

  How WILL God wipe out every tear from their eyes when they are already in heaven with incorruptible, immortal spiritual bodies?

  How will God wipe out every tear from those subjects that you believe are going to live on earth and that this verse applies to in your view?

  Is he going to change the design of the human eye, and human emotion so no one ever can produce a tear? Wouldn't that create an epidemic of dry eye? What if a piece of leaf gets stuck in there, what then? That would be a miserable way to live!

  It seems quite clear that the language being used here is quite figurative and could be applied in a number of ways. I think the tears are symbolic of painful memories being taken away or relieved from those that are in heaven that came from the tribulations on the earth.
• 

  King Solomon

  Recovery asked:

  Questions that have gone unanswered:

  How can the anointed, immortal anointed ones who are not subject to the physical realm and its effects experience these things in a FUTURE SENSE.

  Clarify what you think "immortal" means, please.

  How can those who are immortal be guided to the fountains of waters of life?

  How will they 'no longer hunger or thirst or experience the heat from the sun' anymore when they have HEAVENLY, SPIRITUAL, IMMORTAL BODIES?

  How WILL God wipe out every tear from their eyes when they are already in heaven with incorruptible, immortal spiritual bodies?

  The search engine is your friend: Leolaia and others (including me) have discussed in the past on the symbolism of "living waters", a recurrent motif in both the OT and NT, as well as other ancient documents of the ANE.
• 

  Recovery

  bttt