Hilarious. A liar talking about morality. You can't make this stuff up. Perchance do you know Lance Armstrong?
Why aren't you an Atheist?
by Bloody Hotdogs! 697 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
cofty
You say that order is the one thing that convinces you there is a god and then when asked to explain you say morality is the thing that convinces you. Which is it?
-
sabastious
Mathmatically speaking morality did not originate on Earth. If the universe is 13.7 billion years old that means humanity only makes up a mere 0.0001459854% of the timeline. We are just a tiny drop in the bucket, but we HAVE evolved to the point where we are aware of what we call "morality." This is a concept that governs more than just humanity.
-Sab
-
sabastious
You say that order is the one thing that convinces you there is a god and then when asked to explain you say morality is the thing that convinces you. Which is it?
Morality is evolved Order. They are one and the same.
-Sab
-
cofty
So what convinces you that morality exists outside of and pre-dates human society?
Actually I will grant you that there is something like rudimentary morality among social animal groups but how do you conclude that " morality did not originate on Earth"
-
King Solomon
Sab said:
To me God is a better answer on all fronts. God just makes perfect sense to me therefore atheism is simply not appealing in the truth department because I see evidence for God all around me.
Sooo, since this God thing works well for YOU, we should all accept it? Hmmm.... Is that an "argument from personal opinion"? Hmmm....
Oh, the "evidence all around you, as seen in his creations" thing:
That may have been more compelling in the 1st Century when Paul used it in the same debate, in Romans 11:20:
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
He'd be glad to see that it lives on today and offers some comfort to you, Sab; in fact, that's the main proof offered by JWs, too (as seen in that wonderment of His creations DVD they made, arguing that the creation is evidence for the creator). Are you SURE you're not still a JW? Thats THEIR argument, LOL!
Paul's statement ignores all the knowledge in life sciences discovered in the past 2,000 years. That's a LONG TIME!
Science is for things and God is NOT a thing, he's a spirit which CANNOT be tested by the scientific method.
Gravity is not a "thing", is it? That didn't stop Newton from elucidating theories on it, a few centuries ago?
Schizophrenia is not a "thing", is it? Again,that doesn't stop psychiatrists from learning about etiology, pathophysiology, diagnosis, managment, treatment, etc?
-
EntirelyPossible
Mathmatically speaking morality did not originate on Earth.
Your answer is marked wrong unless you show your work. Please show your math.
Morality is evolved Order. They are one and the same.
A liar talking about morality. Hilarious.
-
sabastious
Actually I will grant you that there is something like rudimentary morality among social animal groups but how do you conclude that "morality did not originate on Earth"
Well I gave a mathmatical argument, but there is also a philisophical argument. When we look at morality as an evolution we see that it's not only a working model, but a model that skyrockets species and solidifies their position in the universe. From the atheistic perspective aliens will come here to harvest our resources to fill their own needs. This completely ignores the idea of morality. There are people on this planet who would feed themselves to tiger cubs if it meant the cubs didn't have to die that night. Morality gives us a grander perspective on life and therefore anything that would be considered higher than us would be even MORE moral than us as they simply had more time to grow. The fact that morality exists in animals only proves that evolution is required for morality to come to be and it strengthens faith in the purpose of everything including the animal kingdom which provided the seed for all of humanity. They deserve our respect and reverence as our true ancestors. It would be foolish to assume that we are the highest life in the universe, that's just like saying that the earth is the center of the universe which was a scientific precedent for a long time. There is no need to make that mistake again, we can simply say we are NOT the highest form of life and therefore get to assume that life above us will have higher morality than us. But that doesn't mean that their morality will not be able to be understood, it will just take effort to not use our own understanding to explain something that is beyond us.
-Sab
-
sabastious
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse
Yes that argument is still being made today by theistic evolutionists whom I proudly stand with. Paul would be a theistic evolutionist if he were alive today, I reckon.
Gravity is not a "thing", is it? That didn't stop Newton from elucidating theories on it, a few centuries ago?
Schizophrenia is not a "thing", is it? Again,that doesn't stop psychiatrists from learning about etiology, pathophysiology, diagnosis, managment, treatment, etc?
Gravity is a thing, just a particular thing that we have not fully explained yet. Schizophrenia is also a thing as it's a certain mental cocktail of neurotransmitters and also the PERSON who is schizophrenic is also a thing.
-Sab
-
EntirelyPossible
Well I gave a mathmatical argument, but there is also a philisophical argument.
No, you didn't. You used some mathy sounding words, that isn't using a mathematical argument.
When we look at morality as an evolution we see that it's not only a working model, but a model that skyrockets species and solidifies their position in the universe.
No, we don't. We see the reverse is true. Morality usually only shows up AFTER the position is solidified through death, violence, war and slavery. Also true in the non-human animal kingdom. Ideas or morality are also used to invoke and create destruction. Your argument is flatter than a pancake.
So, anyway, a liar talking about morality. Hilarious. It's like a sick joke.