by Bloody Hotdogs! 697 Replies latest jw friends
I embrace the contradictions. Why would I ignore them?
Not the contradictions. The contradicting verses. If you state that God wants sacrifice... you have to ignore the verses that state He does NOT want sacrifice. You ignore the one verse, in your preference to believe the other verse. What is your basis for that?
Peace,
tammy
I disagree on the specifics, but we serve the same King
You don't even serve the same person. They are so vastly different, I think they may only share a common name. Put them behind a curtain, and let them (him?) speak.
Curtain one: I despise slavery, and I believe that unless you think slavery is a good thing for you, you should never hold someone as a slave.
Curtain two: I embrace slavery and believe that it is important to the social order of our day and days past. When it is no longer working in this role, I will change my mind about slavery, but I will be consistent to the principal--social order.
Pull the curtain, and the audience will shake their head and laugh as it is revealed that the same guy said both things! And each member will dismiss half of what was said, and decide they know the real Christ, LOL.
Moses was following the laws of universe, which makes him a killer not a murderer.
Desperate positions call for desperate, made up stuff.
Law of the universe? What laws are those? Where are the written down? Is "thou shalt not smoke weed" one of them?
You know, Sabby, for a dude that smokes weed, you aren't very laid back.
If you state that God wants sacrifice... you have to ignore the verses that state He does NOT want sacrifice. You ignore the one verse, in your preference to believe the other verse. What is your basis for that?
Why do you think I ignore verses? What is your basis for saying that?
If someone was beating (or raping) a woman without killing her, and you killed that someone to stop them, would that make you a murderer?
Yes. In the state I live in, that would, under the law, make me guilty of murder or manslaughter. Either way, it would be an illegal killing of another human.
Yes. In the state I live in, that would, under the law, make me guilty of murder or manslaughter. Either way, it would be an illegal killing of another human.
Ah, okay. Yes, I agree that he legally committed murder, under Egyptian law.
Something being legal or illegal does not necessarily make it right or wrong. Even under our own law, what is technically murder (or some other crime) can be justified. Not often, but it does happen. I guess that is the point I am arguing from.
For example, slavery being legal did not make it good.
Why do you think I ignore verses? What is your basis for saying that?
Because you choose to define God by the 'bad' things, even when there are verses (and Christ) that contradict what you are choosing to embrace.
Peace,
tammy
If someone was beating (or raping) a woman without killing her, and you killed that someone to stop them, would that make you a murderer?
Just curious as to your line of thought.
I can answer this on a personal level, but it would not be a legal determination whether I would be a murderer. I can only answer if it would make me right, despite the law.
If a person were beating a woman, without killing her, and I shot him in the head with a gun, that would probably make me a murderer, and would probably make me wrong too. My friend witnessed a woman being beaten by a man, and she broke his arm with a baseball bat. She didn't aim for the head, but the beating stopped immediately. There is a certain principal for matching force at play here. The judge later agreed.
But this was not the case with Moses. Moses believed it was okay to beat slaves. He even gave slave beating guidelines. So that was not the issue. The slave driver was allowed, by law, to beat the slave. Moses agrees with that! Moses held a high station in Egypt. If killing the slave driver was within the realm of acceptable, he could have successfully argued his case. He didn't. He buried the body and ran away, to take up a much lower station, to marry beneath his station, and to leave all behind.
Even today, the cops will ask, "Why did you run?" Hiding evidence of a crime increases the intent and stakes.
So let's go back to your illustration. If I saw a woman being beaten (not to death) and shot the guy in the head, then maybe I have a case. But if I bury the body and then run away, my case kind of fizzles. Why did Moses kill a man for doing what Moses believed was acceptable---beating a slave? Why did he hide it? Why did he run? Because he was a murderer.
Curtain one: I despise slavery, and I believe that unless you think slavery is a good thing for you, you should never hold someone as a slave.
Close, but not quite. If you are going to use me under curtain number one, then you have to get me right.
Enslaving (implying against their will) another human being is against the teachings of Christ, and God. If someone chooses to be a slave or servent, then that is their choice. We are all slaves to that which has mastered us. But it can be our choice. But if someone takes that choice from us, then that is against the teachings of Christ, and therefore God.
In any case, if people listened to and understood Christ and love, then slavery could have ended without a drop of blood being shed. Without a rebellion or war or any 'escalated' violence.
Peace,
tammy
Because you choose to define God by the 'bad' things, even when there are verses (and Christ) that contradict what you are choosing to embrace.
I recognize those as well. But EVERYONE talks about how awesome God is, it's never balanced with the full story. I don't define God simply by the bad things, but those are an important part that needs to be brought up for a fair and balanced discussion.
NC, why did he object to the slave driver in the first place, then?
