Why aren't you an Atheist?

by Bloody Hotdogs! 697 Replies latest jw friends

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    If you treat Bible stories like textbook historical records you will come to ridiculous conclusions like this one (lacking imagination is your worst foe).

    You mean conclusions like the Torah talking about genetics or gravity somehow being related to morality because God or freewill = slavery?

    He was never meant to live and die in Egypt and he felt this throughout his Egyptian life.

    Wait, if your proposition is that everything that happened to him was destiny, the he absolutely WAS meant to live in Egypt.

    There was something missing and when he saw the Hebrew being beaten it all became clear to him.

    Made up stuff.

    He was not an Egyptian or else he wouldn't have killed one.

    Doesn't make sense. Jews killed each other all the time.

    Moses is the good guy in the story who has to make very tough, godly, decisions.

    You like a murderer. Just admit it.

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    What do you base your 'picking and choosing' upon?

    With regard to the bible? I don't pick and choose.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    You like a murderer. Just admit it.

    Why would I admit something I don't hold to be true?

    -Sab

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Because it's true whether you want it to be or not.

  • sabastious
    sabastious
    Because it's true whether you want it to be or not.

    It's not true, it has nothing to do with want, that's your false assertion. If I admitted it I would only be doing so because you told me to. I am not your slave, I am Christ's slave.

    -Sab

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Moses was a murderer.

    You like Moses.

    Seems pretty obviously true.

  • tec
    tec

    How did I know you were going to say that?

    Because you thought of it yourself?

    Adding that in is simply adding in a justification of your own making.

    I'm not justifying anything. Just pointing out that Moses didn't really escalate the violence. It was already there.

    That bit doesn't exists in this narrative. It's wishful thinking to justify the murder. On a side note, YHWH (and, by extension, his Son, his image, who supported every letter of the law) said was was 100% A-OK to beat your slaves to death as long as it took them a day or two to die.

    Backwards.

    You're looking at the OT (and just the 'bad' bits, I will remind you)... as the image of God, and then using that image to see the Son. When the image of God IS the Son, and not the law (which is a shadow, imperfect, lacking... until He who is the Truth was to come) or the OT (which is NEVER stated to be the image of God)

    Once the Truth comes, why continue to look backward or at something lacking? Makes no sense.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    EP, you think Moses was a murderer because you think so and you use words to make it look like you have a point when you don't actually have any point at all. You just have words and then you appeal to them. EP, do you consider yourself a god?

    -Sab

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    (lacking imagination is your worst foe).

    Well this answers a lot for me. Lacking imagination is your worst foe when reading the bible. That's it. It all hinges on this. Each person reads the bible, mixes it with their own imagination, and that is how they come to so many different conclusions. Sab imagines that Christ and Moses were the same person. Tec imagines that only the good stuff written about Jesus are true, and she also imagines he said many things that weren't written. Which would get him off the hook for never condemning slavery and other atrocities.

    We have two people that read the same book and come to nearly opposite opinions on some pretty key points. What is the difference between the two? Their imaginations. They each fill in the gaps and make the connections according to their own imagination.

    Sab's Christ and Tec's Christ are very different people. Sab's Christ supported rape, killing and slavery, while Tec's Christ would never do any such thing. The difference is their imaginations.

    Tec asks what we use to pick and choose when we look at the Bible. It's not that we pick and choose, because it holds no authority for us, but we marvel at how those that it does have some authority to as they pick and choose. For Tec, it's as though most of the law of Moses, a law that God's people lived by for thousands of years--even while he is reported to have been communicating with prophets and setting things straight--hardly has any validity at all.

    This God never punished these people for keeping that very corrupt law. Idolatry---SURE---they got punished. Selling daughters to rapists--nope, never punished. So we see what was important to this god. His ego. While he turned a deaf ear to the suffering of his worshippers---to the women being stoned for not bleeding the first time they had sex---for the young girl sold to a life of abuse with her rapist---to the Canaanite children who were slaughtered wholesale--- but he got really grumpy if they played with other gods. Or took credit when they shouldn't. Or took a census when they shouldn't. These were his priorities.

    Unless you talk to Tec. Then the story is that if Jesus wouldn't do it, according to her imagination, then it was never part of the plan. Inaction does not mean consent, no matter how powerful the observer may be.

    On the other hand, Sab's Christ embraced it all with gusto.

    Imagination. It can be your friend---but it can really make for a puzzling outcome too.

  • tec
    tec

    There is a term for it, but I can't remember. I'd like to know since this has always struck me as the weakest, cheapest, most aggravating way to argue.

    As is this:

    Moses murdered someone. You like Moses. Therefore, you love murderers.

    Check out this site:

    http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/

    I'm sure it lists a name for both of these fallacies ;)

    Peace,

    tammy

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