by Bloody Hotdogs! 697 Replies latest jw friends
NC, Tec and I disagree on the specifics, but we serve the same King. That's one fact that makes the Body of Christ special is that we can disagree and still be part of the same story. You see it as weakness, I see it as strength. It's all in how you look at it.
-Sab
Just pointing out that Moses didn't really escalate the violence. It was already there.
Untrue. He absolutely DID escalate the violence. He took a beating and escalated it into murder.
You're looking at the OT (and just the 'bad' bits, I will remind you)... as the image of God, and then using that image to see the Son.
I look at all of it, not just the bad bits. And if Christ is the image of God, then God can also be looked at to see the image of Christ. If A=B, then B=A. Jesus said the law was good. His words, not mine.
Tec imagines that only the good stuff written about Jesus are true, and she also imagines he said many things that weren't written. Which would get him off the hook for never condemning slavery and other atrocities.
No, Tec states that Christ is the Image of God, therefore, what is true about Christ is true about God. What is not true about Christ, is not true about God. As for the rest, you should back up your statement. He did state (and it is written) do unto others as you would have them do unto you; serve one another (not enslave); love others as He loved us (and He came to serve; not to enslave) Those words cover a lot of 'atrocities', as does the example that he gave us. Stone an adulteress according to the law? Christ forgave one. Call down a curse upon your enemies when they beat and kill you? Hmm. Christ asked forgiveness for them. Attack or get revenge upon someone who takes from you? Hmm. Christ said to give them even more.
Tec asks what we use to pick and choose when we look at the Bible. It's not that we pick and choose, because it holds no authority for us, but we marvel at how those that it does have some authority to as they pick and choose.
You do pick and choose. Each time you make a statement about God, but ignore the contradicting statements... as well as Christ (the Truth)... then you are picking and choosing.
Peace,
tammy
EP, you think Moses was a murderer because you think so and you use words to make it look like you have a point when you don't actually have any point at all. You just have words and then you appeal to them. EP, do you consider yourself a god?
Moses is a murderer because he killed someone that wasn't killing anyone else. That's what a murderer is.
As is this:
Moses murdered someone. You like Moses. Therefore, you love murderers.
Agreed. Sab likes one specific murderer. Otherwise, what I said was 100% true. Consider it amended.
Each time you make a statement about God, but ignore the contradicting statements... as well as Christ (the Truth)... then you are picking and choosing.
I embrace the contradictions. Why would I ignore them?
Actually, Moses did murder a guy. That's a fact, and I will support it.
Murder is a legal term, where killing is not. That is why soldiers are not murderers. They are following the laws of the land, and so their killing is not unallowed and is not murder.
Moses was a murderer. He obviously broke a law, because he buried the body and ran away for good. The slave driver was not breaking any laws. He was allowed to beat the slave, and Moses understood this because when he was put in charge, he let owners beat their slaves quite brutaly. He allowed owners to rape their slaves, break up their families, and do many other things that would be a felony if done to a free person, but only misdemeanors when carried out against slaves.
Moses had been adopted by the Pharoah's daughter. He had protection on some pretty high ground, but he still needed to run and hide. That's because he was a murderer, a coward, and he didn't trust that his station would get him off the hook. He killed someone for doing something that it was legal and expected for them to do---so he is a murderer. It's like when a nutjob shoots and abortion doctor. They are murderers, regardless of what they think of the doctor. Because the doctor was operating within the realm of law, and the shooter is not.
None of this means I condone any of what was happening, but when we look at the legal structure, then it is absolutely clear that Moses was a murderer and a coward that ran away instead of sticking around to explain why he murdered some guy for doing his job. And it would have been a pretty weak defense considering that in just a few years, he would be writing out his own law that allowed owners to beat slaves nearly to death----or to a long and drawn out death---but a quick death would have been illegal.
I look at all of it, not just the bad bits.
Then again, how do you choose which of conflicting ideas to believe? What, again, is your basis for embracing the 'bad' and ignoring the 'good'?
And if Christ is the image of God, then God can also be looked at to see the image of Christ. If A=B, then B=A.
This is only true if you know what both A and B are.
If you are mistaken in who you think God IS... and He sends someone in His image so that you CAN know him, then does it make sense to apply all those mistakes to the One He sent in His image? Or does it makes sense to scratch the mistakes... and simply look at the Truth.
Only if you know the Truth, can you know the mistakes you were making before. Otherwise, what was the point? You're just making all the same mistakes all over again, and your equation is still flawed.
Jesus said the law was good. His words, not mine.
I don't think He actually said that.
In any case, which law? The one that was handled falsely (or added to because of the hard-heartedness of the people)? Or the actual law of God as He intended?
Peace,
tammy
Murder is a legal term, where killing is not. That is why soldiers are not murderers. They are following the laws of the land, and so their killing is not unallowed and is not murder.
Moses was following the laws of universe, which makes him a killer not a murderer.
-Sab
Moses is a murderer because he killed someone that wasn't killing anyone else. That's what a murderer is.
If someone was beating (or raping) a woman without killing her, and you killed that someone to stop them, would that make you a murderer?
Just curious as to your line of thought.
Peace,
tammy
