SHUNNING- Oregonian Article-HUGE!

by messenger 104 Replies latest jw friends

  • dedalus
    dedalus

    Yeah, JT, and another example of this sort of thing is in the movie *A Perfect World,* in which a boy is not allowed to go to an amusement park because he's a Witness. Also, when explaining why they don't celebrate Halloween, the mother says, "Our beliefs take us to a higher plane." No Witness would ever say that -- Witnesses are staying right here on the earth.

    Or, for example, the novel White Teeth by Zadie Smith. In addition to countless other errors, one of the main Witness characters is seen wearing a cross, and at the Kingdom Hall kneeling in pews!

    I guess it's just easier to make shit up that do some good old-fashioned research. Which is a shame, because it gives Witnesses a good excuse for ignoring otherwise valid criticisms of their faith.

    Dedalus

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy

    dedalus

    [I guess it's just easier to make shit up that do some good old-fashioned research.]

    This made me laugh.

    I had to respond to that because it reminded me of this guy I dated for a "short time" I was no longer an active JW but I still attend the memorial each year. Any way he was a self proclaimed expert on religion and his faith of choice was to be a born Again and while in the Army acted as the presiding preacher for his fellow comrads in the field. When the memorial came around I told him that I was going
    a rather casual thing IMO anyway. He started YELLING at the top of his lungs! The first time I heard him ever yell like that. I took me back, I was shocked. Didn't no how to respond to that. Just trying to digest what just happened was keeping me to busy to say anything for several min.

    Anyway when he started winding down a bit I asked him why he was so freaked out about it. Whats the big deal? Mistake. I should have just ignored him at that point but no way...I HAD to ask.

    his response, with his now severely handicaped voice box, schreaching
    AAAAAaaaaaahhhh! "B E C A U S E T H E Y T H I N K J E S U S I S D E A D ! ! ! T H A T 'S W H Y ! ! !" Face explodeing. He knew all about the jw religion because he personally researched there beliefs, (he's telling this to some one who has only been affiliated with that faith for a pewny 35 years at that time.

    I can look back at it and laugh now but at the time that upset me so much. I still went to the Memorial. His last words to me before I left was "I FORBID YOU TO GO!" LOL me "Excuse me?!"

    "I look to the sea, reflections in the waves spark my memory
    Some happy,some sad"
    styx

    This one most definitely Happy
  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    JT

    Man you keep stringin' it out there, don't you. Ever heard of wasting band space.

    JAMES
    ps

    JUST remember this quote Friday for according to your belief system YOU ARE NOT SPIRITUALLY MATURE:

    Today's Watchtower lesson instructs Witnesses not to think for themselves when it comes to Bible understanding:
    Augest 1, 2001, p. 14, par. 8:

    First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rater, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided "at the proper time" -- through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions -- we can be sure that we maintain "oneness" with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge. -- Matthew 24:45.

    You sure do have this quoting thing down pat, it seems. The difference between me and you though, is that I also know how to understand what's been quoted.

    Yadirf

    .

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

  • mindfield
    mindfield

    JT, excellent post.

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    JT

    See here >>> http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=24176&site=3

    Daniel 11:35 ... a KEY prophecy that must be fulfilled before the "time of the end" gets underway.

  • biblexaminer
    biblexaminer

    Yadorf You are such a goof. Everyone here is laughing at you. You stick up for the Governing Bastards, but here you are, posting away, a standing example of "unfaithfulness".

    As others have amply explained youdorf, yougoof, you are in violation of your stupid leaders' rules by being here. If you were busy kissing the GB's buttocks like you should be, Mr goodie-2-shoues dubb, then you wouldn't have time to practice hypocrisy here.

  • JT
    JT

    As others have amply explained youdorf, yougoof, you are in violation of your stupid leaders' rules by being here.

    BE--

    You are on the money, each time he hits "REPLY TO TOPIC" according o his own Belief System he is Spitting on the blood of Christ, by thumbing his nosw up to the Mouth pc he is using the FDS

    for him not to see the clear contridiction of WORD AND DEED

    is the funny part or should i say the sad part

    almost every single nonjw i have explained the WT rules to on hanging out with DFed folks understand that this Clown is breaking his OWN RULES

    hey Friday
    keep hitting that reply button

    .

  • JT
    JT

    Mindfield

    Thanks, but you know you really got to feel sorry for guys like Friday, YK, Fred for we all know that in thier respective Halls they are considered "Loser" from the Sisters right on up to the CO when he stops by

    They look at his Pub Card on the CO visit and i would not doubt they probably laugh at my man.

    yet this site provides him with the ONLY VOICE he has-

    in my exp most guys like Friday and the rest are outcast in the hall

    i think almost ever hall has a bro or sister that just can't fit in and in my opinion this guy fits the "MO"

    now i could be wrong, he could be a Bethelite at Patterson who is assinged to surf this site, but then again he could be the guy who the elders rarely ask him to do more than cut the grass around the hall

    just my 2

  • SEAKEN2001
    SEAKEN2001

    I thought the article was neither balanced nor biased. As noted by someone else above it was a typical attempt by a journalist to "sum up" a very complex issue. She cannot possibly grasp the complexity of the JW's beliefs as the relate to shunning yet she wants to present something to the public that will help them account for the talk of said shunning as possibly having a connection to the murders and suicide. I think it will depend on how much this writer really wants to understand and how much effort she is willing to expend in helping her readers reach an objective conclusion as to whether there may indeed be such a link.

    Here's the e-mail I sent to Wendy in response to her article:

    Hi Wendy,

    thank you for your article in The Oregonian about shunning among Jehovah's Witnesses. I'm sure you have only the best of intentions and you must know that it is terribly difficult to understand ideas and beliefs that are foriegn to your own. It takes a certain amount of dedication and a lot of time to really grasp the language and ideolgy of a religious organization and it's membership with which you have only casual contact. I will not suggest that you spend an inordinate amount of time on such an endeavor unless you really have such an interest. But I will suggest that you take at least a little time getting some background information about the beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses from several sources. Some of your statements are misleading and do not reflect the actual practices of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

    I realize you are relying on the information of actual Jehovah's Witness "elders" and may even have read certain statements in the literature published by the Watchtower Society, the legal corporation used by the Witnesses to publish and teach their message to the world. What you do not yet grasp is that the Jehovah's Witnesses have constructed a language that can be used to say one thing but mean something quite different from what the average reader of your paper will comprehend. There is debate about whether this has been an intentional exercise of the Witnesses over the years but it has nevertheless come to be the common way among the Witness community. They call it the "Pure Language" and encourage all members to learn this language and to remain in unity inside their "Spiritual Paradise". This allows for them to make statements like:

    "This discipline comes from violating the stated laws of God"

    or

    'To get kicked out, baptized members must display a pattern of "serious un-Christian conduct"'

    To your readers this means something like "the JW's kick people out who don't follow the Law of God as outlined in the Bible and who are not living as Christ lived. That's no different than several other Christian churches."

    What the Jehovah's Witness understands is this:

    "I will be disciplined if I don't follow the rules as explained to me by God's only channel on the earth in this time of the end, as appointed by Him through His Son in 1914 as the Faithful and Discreet Slave class of annointed kings who will rule over the earth after the war of Armageddon."

    and

    "To disagree with any of the interpretation of the Watchtower Society is un-Christian since Christ himself has revealed these interpretations and is using the Watchtower to publish them to all honest-hearted people in all the earth. If I do not agree and teach these interpretations as they are explained to me I will be disfellowhipped and shunned until I recant and show by my actions, for several years, that I believe I was wrong to disagree with the interpretations of Jesus himself as printed in the Watchtower publications."

    Wendy, I know it seems incredible to suggest that these few words quoted by you in your article can be understood in the convoluted and complicated manner I am attempting to explain to you. But this is just an example of how the Witnesses have learned to communicate to the outside world while at the same time keeping the real understanding of what they mean to themselves. When they say they strictly adhere to the Bible what they mean is that they strictly adhere to the understanding of what the Bible means as explained to them by the Faithful and Discreet Slave. If you are a Christian, when you say you believe in the Bible and live your life according to what you read in it you mean you try to modify your habits and actions according to how you understand what you read in the Bible. You read what it says and you act accordingly. For a Witness it is not that simple. No Witness is allowed to read what the Bible says and accept it as simple and clear direction for their life without first subjecting their own interpretation to that of the Watchtower. And if the Watchtower changes their interpretation you are required, yes required, to accept it and make it your own or you will not be considered "in the truth" and will be treated as an outsider.

    This same requirement to adjust your own thoughts to be in line with the dogma taught by the Watchtower is found in every facet of a Witnesses life. It simply is not allowed to make your own choices in matters of faith and doctrine. The Watchtower enforces this unspoken rule (similar to the Amish "ordnung") by wielding authority through a heirarchical system of "elders". If you are in every way an exemplary Christian in your actions yet fail to accept the doctrines peculiar to the Watchtower Society you can be disfelowshipped. This threat keeps many would-be disenters in line and silent.

    I have over twenty years of experience as a Witness and my father and mother each had over fifty years. Both my father and I learned the doctrines so well we were often used to teach others the accpetable way to worship. I have only touched the surface of the intricately woven fabric that makes up the real thoughts of a Jehovah's Witness believer. May I suggest that if you want to learn more you do a search for works by James Penton and Steven Hassan. You will come to realize that the Jehovah's Witnesses are much more than another Christian religion. You would do your readers a favor by helping explain the differences between their fairly common understanding of the words JW's use to explain their belief and the understanding the JW's themselves have of those same words. Once you do this you will read your article, as written, in a quite different way than perhaps you initially intended.

    At any rate, please keep up the fine work. I believe people need to know more about this religion that is busy in the neighborhoods throughout the US and the world in an effort to convert honest hearted people to "the Truth".

    Sean

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    Sean,

    One of the things I have had to accept is that the world doesn't care about issues surrounding Witnesses and cannot understand. No amount of explaining will make anyone see what years of association with this group can do.

    For the most part, time is simply wasted when we explain or justify and in the end we look like complete idiots to the outside world for remaining Witnesses as long as we did.

    This is why discussion boards like this work. Nothing really needs to be said between all of us. We just know and understand each other.

    Path

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