Are They Cynically Shutting Down The Organization?

by metatron 112 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Etude

  The saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" or "if it's working, don't screw with it" is indicative that it ain't working. They're changing because they have to. The prophesies and saintly structures they've built have come back to haunt them. I think somebody in there (the GB) knows they need to move in another direction.

  I don't see the organization being strapped for cash. What I do see is that they realize that their contribution base has been notably reduced. They still have loads of money. They're getting leaner and meaner financially by divesting of property they no longer utilize. In a way, it is like any other business.

  As I recall, even before the GB came into existence in the early 70s, some of the individuals who were the signatories and the legal representatives of the different corporations and organizations of the Jehovah's Witnesses (the International Bible Students Association, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania; the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc; Religious Order of Jehovah's Witnesses, New York; Kingdom Support Services, Inc., New York) included and/or now include individuals who were not of the anointed. My perception is that some of those people were chosen because they either had some business experience or had credentials that made them suitable to be signatories or legal representatives. I don't think that meant that the visible heads (either the presidents at one time nor the GB now) ever lost ultimate control. So, I don't think there's anyone behind the GB pulling strings.

  But perhaps now, with the move to the GB as the FDS there may be a greater degree of control, even if they still use non-anointed or R&F individuals to represent them. For the Mormons, it's simple. You essentially become an "anointed" when you reach the higher echelon of "priesthood". Reaching the top layer or the highest order of their priesthood , the Melchizedek order, where I suspect the major shots are called from, is what I imagine would equate with the GB of JWs. It just seems that that kind of level is more attainable in the Mormon Church because to some degree the requirements can be identified. The GB selection is much more mysterious. The change is afoot. I think they see it. I think they're working on it.
• 

  Aussie Oz

  If I was running a publishing corporation that makes its money (most but not all) from printing and selling books and magazines, the age of digital would make me restructure.

  I would maintain a small level off tangible printed material, but no where near what i used to print, and go online as so many other periodicals have done. I would have selected adds running that pay me, and have literature printed by my subscribers at their own cost.

  If i had multiple printing houses and staff, that would have to go and i would reinvest my capital from selling them off into better paying concerns and running a digital set up. get rid of thousands of hungry mouths around the world in costly accomodations and feed a few hundred that pump out my shit in little cubicles from a central location.

  seeing that my subscribers are gullible and easy led, i could persuade most to stick with me...

  This I think is the way the WT will go. In process they will dump the WT as a legal liability and create a new corporation. I dont think the leadership is inept and making blundering errors at all. They KNOW that the rank and file will swallow whatever they say, and ground work has been laid for a good many changes to come. Do it over time and the revolving door membership wont even realize it.

  In a nutshell: A smart business will change its product to survive and i think they are smart. I think they will shrink and go to ground, but they could get all loose and lovely...but either way, they will change big time for the dollars sake.

  oz
• 

  moshe

  What do JWs want? They want to survive Armageddon, while they watch their stubborn neighbors get vaporized by angels and then enter the paradise earth to live forever as perfect humans. If they wanted to be in heaven with Jesus after they died, they would dump the KH and join a regular Christian church. The GB is merely providing what the JWs crave-- reinforcement that the "end" is so-ooo close and the big payoff is just a little bit further. The JWs would riot, if the GB did an about face on that doctrine. So it is not surprising the average JW will eagerly lap up whatever "new light" comes out in the Watchtower that essentially keeps moving the goal post for the end of this system of things just out of reach. They have no choice but to accept a watered down WT dogma that has become a muddled mess in comparison to what JWs were taught in 1970. Accept it or leave the KH. Elders are the willing henchmen who keep the JWs in line and kick out all who question the faithful slave-- and the JWs want it that way- nice and quiet with no ripples of logic to pull them out of their self induced state of smug superiority over the world.
• 

  JimmyPage

  I think the convention drama a few years ago offered insight into a conflict that was going on within the Watchtower Society. I think there were some members who, like the character Scolios, wanted to make changes to the organization for the better. In the end though these ideas were demonized and squashed by the Governing Body as being a return to false religious thinking. And now the grip of these madmen is tightening.
• 

  Etude

  Aussie Oz: "If I was running a publishing corporation that makes its money (most but not all) from printing and selling books and magazines, the age of digital would make me restructure."

  I know you said more, but that one statement, made mo go, Whoa! It never passed my mind (well, maybe I considered it briefly) that the WTBTS was running a corportaion to make money from printing. I worked in the printing department and I did a brief estimate in my head of the cost of running a single press (the paper rolls [depending on quality], the ink, the plates, maintenance supplies, the power, the loaded labor, etc). Believe me, 15 cents per magazine (in those days) barely coverd the cost even when the labor was 100% free. No. I think that for a good period of time, the WTBTS was receiving generous donations from many sources.

  One thing that didn't occur to me before is that the donations are a function fo the economy. I can't imagine worse economic times that the ones recently in terms of extra spending cash from the side of publishers, even from loyal big donors JW donors, who probably belong to an older generation. I think that what's happening now is a delayed effect of the previous years. On the one hand, they have accomplished some attrition due to technology. But on the other, there's less revenue to account for. That's another reason that tells me they're seeking a major change to secure their future.
• 

  flipper

  O.K. Some people want me to spill the beans. It's not really all that much information I received. It was enough information though to make me realize that the GB is not running the WT Society show. This individual basically told me that the theory I had stated to him about a stronger " behind the scenes " power running the WT organization is true. There are powerful people who stand to lose a great deal of wealth if the WT society were to fold. Our discussion included how the WT Society is just a front for much bigger business organizations who use the WT Society as a protective cash cow to finance the other businesses and that the real picture of who is running the show is not known by many JW's even some of those inside of Bethel.

  This should come as no surprise to anyone here if you've done research on threads in the past on the board where it's well known that the WT Society owned over half I believe of Rand-Cam corporation that makes military weapons. And another thread indicated the WT Society owns good sized shares in an oil company off the coast of Brazil . I mean, it stands to reason that the millions $$$ of dollars are going SOMEWHERE. And if you really step outside the box and look at the unscrupulous and dishonest business tactics with the RBC's via Circuit Overseers insisting that many Kingdom Halls be remodeled so congregations can be in financial slavery for years and years - it's no real stretch to see the lack of morals or ethics at the very top of the WT organization. Even the Mafia in organized crime has respectable cover businesses they operate their operations through. It's no real stretch of the imagination that organizations like the WT Society would do the same
• 

  ziddina

  FAscinating, Flipper...

  Yet another reason that I wish laws could be passed making religious organizations far more transparent regarding their finances.
• 

  Aussie Oz

  It would come at no great surprise if a good many religions are controlled by outsiders Mr Flipper.

  Tax free legal money laundering?

  oz
• 

  Vidiot

  Couple things, Flipper...

  How do you know your source is reliable? How do you know his or her info isn't second- or third-hand rumor? The allegation prompts more questions than there are answers. Not to mention that the idea of the GB letting anyone dictate to them is a pretty hard swallow, you gotta admit.

  Although...

  ...now that I think about it, the idea of a quiet-but-successful hostile takeover by a rival corporation executed in the maelstrom of the recent economic meltdown is a somewhat compelling one.

  All the recent real estate fire sales do remind me of what happens after something like that; the victor often chops up all the different aspects of the loser (particularly the no-longer-profitable ones) and liquidates them for whatever it can get, market value notwithstanding.

  Names, connections, and corroboration from other sources would make me more inclined to entertain the possibility, regardless.

  PS: No offense, but you realize your post is just gonna fuel the conspiracy theorist wackos who post Illuminati/NWO bullshit here, right?
• 

  metatron

  Flipper raises some interesting points. Ray Franz once spoke about illegal currency transactions and the Mexico/Malawi scandal shows you that they're OK with bribery.

  Could they be involved with money laundering? or abetting tax evasion? The huge volume of small donations in cash would offer such an opportunity. The Vatican certainly does it.

  I vaguely recall some years ago, a post about a casual conversation that supposedly took place in WT Treasurt Dept. that said the WT had no threat from debt or leverage but did have some mysterious unnamed liability.... Could someone offer a conditional loan? and get it back untraced?

  I could easily see how they could get away with such stuff and think 'whatever is sold in meat market, ask no question for conscience sake' as guidance.

  metatron