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WT Elders school: The WTS has progressed from just plain stupid to dangerously stupid
by sir82 111 Replies latest jw friends
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Godsendconspirator
I just going to respond to Ethos post on the first page. I don't usually post but I'll share an experience on this one.
Elders don't do anything that is just "common sense". They do exactly what they are told to do at the meetings and in their elders book.
I attempted suicide. I survived. You know what helped me? My "wordly" friend whom I was told not to spend so much time around. And for years I tried to bury all that inside me, attending meetings, preaching, studying, not once considering getting professional help. Once I started to do actual research on the organization, I realized it wasn't the truth. Being the nice guy that I am, I decided to get the organization the benefit of the doubt. I wanted to prove that not everyone in the organization was without empathy or some sort of "common sense".
I spoke to an elder about my attempted suicide and my depression. He essentially told me "stop looking back" and that it was my fault and it was a "great opportunity" to learn from it.
I attended a few meetings after that, not even saying "hi" to that elder. And then I stopped going altogether. And I actually made progress, doing the things I love now that actually help me that were forbidden to me. Not sins. But hanging out with my actual friends that I don't have to pretend to be perfect around, work, and music school and now started to make money off audio engineering. -
Billy the Ex-Bethelite
"the sister mentioned that she was thinking of "just going into the garage, closing the door, turning on the car, and going to sleep"."
This is the biggest red flag to me that this person needs professional help ASAP! Once they have chosen a method, that is a serious indicator of intent. When a person has suffered as seriously and as long as indicated, reading a couple excerpts from a storybook aren't going to fix anything. All she needs is someone to say something thoughtless as she's leaving, her pain resurfaces on the drive home, and she pulls into the garage. She needs real help to deal with her feelings. And obviously, she needs someone that is prepared to LISTEN. Average elders are already terribly ill-prepared by thinking they only need to hear a one sentance synopsis of a situation and they're gonna "fix" it by doing all the talking and 'cherry-picking' scriptures that they think will apply. Most of them never really care to really listen empathetically and non-judgmentally. If she's already been attending all the meetings, the help that she obviously needs isn't available at the Kingdumb Haul.
After watching a scripted video like this, average nitwit elders are going to figure that the correct way to "help" someone depressed to the point of suicide is to read them a few verses from Job then expect them to go fetch cookies. Crap like that wouldn't help any of the JWs I knew that killed themselves. For starters, they were all brothers, not sisters.
Thanks for sharing this sir82, they are truly progressing from stupid to dangerous.
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ÁrbolesdeArabia
I heard of a sister killing herself last year, while the elders refused to call the police after she repeatedly told them "I want to die, I want to die!". A few Dubs more close to this situation could comment better than me why she killed herself and why the police were not called until she was dead.
I have a email from a brother who also mentioned the screwup of a brother who hung himself, the elders and the TO refused to 51-50 (call the police to have this sucidial tendency former elder committed) a brother who was in deep emotional pain.
The email mentions a third brother who killed himself, he was very troubled and no amout of psychological help could have helped him" Two counties and four JWs I know of killed themself in 2011, very odd!
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likeabird
"So you see, even Job had these irrational thoughts. Yet he was determined to be an integrity keeper, and you can do the same."
Coming back to the original OP, when you're depressed and suicidal, is this really what you want to hear : do more, preach more, stay faithful? More guilt trips!
What they're really saying, is keep beating the R&F, but do it with a soft, honey coated voice. After all, this is the WT speciality.
Sorry guys, I don't think so. I've seen firsthand elders use this line with someone in that situation, and no amount of sweet voice talk will cut it.
And by the way, unless I misread the OP, the sister ran to the back of the hall, got followed by the elders who "sweet-talked" her, and suddenly at the end she produces some wonderful home-made cookies. Since when does a KH have an oven, or a sister just happen to have home-made cookies on hand at a meeting? Just wondering.
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LisaRose
Do the elders receive any training in mental illness?
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hoser
Do the elders receive any training in mental illness?
Yes they do. It was in last weeks watchtower.
The cure for mental illness is:
1. pray more
2. confess your sins
3. go out in service more(you're obviously not doing enough)
4. and don't even think about missing that meeting on thursday night
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ÁrbolesdeArabia
Punk: My goodness! Your comment goes to show how "cookie cutter" their minor schooling in obeying the Society's rules are everywhere. The points that hit us JWs/ExJWs are those which are so insane, one's we have seen happen from Kingdom Hall to Kingdom Hall. Sister Pioneer was the most happiest women on Earth, her husband was her parter (Soul-mate Pioneer) until he read COC after Ray Franz first published his book. I must have been in my early teens, when this chick feel off a cliff mentally, bitterness and anger followed and she began to devise methods to divorce her husband of twenty-eight years. Sister-Pioneer was sick and tired of "Hey, where's your husband?" up to two years after he decided "this religion is bat-crap crazy, I am out of here!
"Goofus Elder" asked a sister whose husband died "Hey, where's your husband?", she start's to cry "he is dead, he died six months ago!". Goofus Elder never remember people's names, or dates of death, things a shepherd would know!
Punk's
Experience:
When I decided to stop going to meetings my ex-wife sat in the hall crying because me and the boys weren't with her.
The elders came over and she thought they'd come to comfort her. All they did was ask about me and that they wanted to contact me for a JC.
They didn't give a flying fig about how she felt...they were after a kill!!"
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ÁrbolesdeArabia
Lisa Rose: No they do not receive any relevant training you might find from a larger Fundament church's Pastor and team. Those men who receive a Master's in Divinity or above, usually must have "minors" in some type of counseling. To be fair, the Society has never been geared to deal with anyone with major emotional problems, with their attitude of hiding what goes on in the Kingdom Hall from the World, this makes the psychitrist, psychologist or therapist job tough.
The treating agent get's a patient who fears "bring reproach on Jehovah's Organization, we must keep this obscene mask on, that we are the people who have our crap together!" The Kingdom Halls are in constant flux, as couples move from Kingdom Hall to Kingdom Hall seeking the "caring elders", "concerned congregation", and "friendly friends" that don't exist as a whole.
No, elders do not receive any relavant training to deal with mentally ill individuals, some are still anti-psyche medications. We have elders who told not a few depressed members, "don't take Prozac, it makes you kill people!" How's that for a future CO on the move up?
The Watchtower religion was never meant to last more than forty years, it's a ghost-Christianity with no valuable social resources to apply to society as a whole. The members who suffer, usually suffer alone along with mountains of guilt! Cult's don't give a rat's behind" about the "rank-and-file", their focus is on keeping the top members afloat as their ship starts taking on the "water's of reality", that's going to eventually sink it!
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bats in the belfry
Guess where the WTBTS suggests elders should get treatment? (Please read carefully)
When severe distress persists, though, it is well to recall Jesus’ words: “Persons in health do not need a physician, but the ailing do.” (Matthew 9:12) Many distressed persons are reluctant to see a physician. Elders and family members may thus need to encourage a brother to seek medical attention, such as having a thorough examination by a trusted doctor. Says Professor Maurice J. Martin: “A wide variety of physical diseases masquerade as psychiatric disorders.” And even where mental illness really is involved, effective treatments often exist.
The wife of an elder tells how her disturbed husband “became afraid to be around the brothers and didn’t want to go to the meetings. . . . He desperately wanted to die!” But after he received professional medical attention, his wife was able to report: “He is no longer deeply depressed, nor does he want to stay away from meetings. This morning he gave the public talk!”
The Watchtower 1988, October 15, page 27