Ethos, DON'T BE A DOPE.
It is indeed obvious that you have no knowledge of the JW rules for elders, and have nothing to contribute to this thread.
WT Elders school: The WTS has progressed from just plain stupid to dangerously stupid
by sir82 111 Replies latest jw friends
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Christ Alone
The instructions to the elders is not some top secret, classified, no-one must know information.
Yes...yes it is. Have you read the letter that the elders got before they received their new elders book? It stated that sisters were not to even BIND the book because there would be a chance that they would see it. I'd be happy to post the link to view the letter if you would like. Even baptized brothers were to only be allowed to bind the book if they were in the presence of the elder.
Sound top secret to you? It does to me. What are they hiding? After reading the book, A LOT!!! No, most of the elders book is NOT available in publications, regardless of what the elders told you. Here is the letter that they sent regarding letting sisters bind the book:
TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS
Re: Spiral binding of Shepherding textbook
Dear Brothers:
Since the release of the new Shepherding textbook, several elders have asked about the possibility of having their textbook spiral bound. There is no objection if an elder personally spiral binds or laminates his own textbook or does so for other elders. If he has another baptized brother who is not an elder do the work for him, the elder must watch while the work is being done. Outside companies. unbelievers, or sisters are not permitted to do this work. The material in the book is confidential, and confidentiality must be preserved.
Each elder should make the following notation next to the box on the title page of the Shepherding textbook: "See letter dated October 7, 2010, to all bodies of elders regarding spiral binding ofthis textbook."
Please be assured of our warm Christian love and best wishes.
cc: Traveling overseers
PS to secretary:
This letter should be retained in the congregation permanent file of policy letters. You may wish to update the congregation copy of Index to Letters-For Bodies of Elders (S-22) at this time as well.
I could answer your questions but this would turn this discussion into a 10 page long debate, that I could not even begin to reply to as I've used a great deal of my allotted posts in this thread already.
Actually you are at about 60 posts now. I believe the restriction on 10 posts a day has been lifted. I could be wrong. But I suspect that this is a subject that you CANNOT answer. Why were the apostles MAINLY concerned about the hungry, sick, and poor, and yet the WTS could not care less to help those in need financially or medically? Why do they condemn those that build hospitals, homeless shelters, and feed the hungry? Is it because they spend too much of their money paying off the child molesters and their victims? That's where most of YOUR contributed money goes.
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Yan Bibiyan
Oh please. The instructions to the elders is not some top secret, classified, no-one must know information
Ya, walk up to an elder, ANY ELDER, and ask them to see their book just for a minute...
Then come back and tell us what happened...
EDIT: CA beat me to it.
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problemaddict
ETHOS - Ever been appointed? Ever been in these meetings? If not, I would say you may need to defer a little to those that have. I don't ever have a problem with someone offering comfort from the scriptures. But what is OBVIOUS, to you, certainly is not to others and vice versa.
I understand you are trying to balance out the scales a little, and I agree sometimes whatever the branch does is the wrong thing on the board here no matter what. Consider your audience. It is the same in reverse at the congregations where any well meaning church is still derided for what they are not doing or teaching.
In this case, the policy of the branch SHOULD be that if someone like was described, had 1 year later been still dealing with suicidal tendancies, that they should also direct them to professional help, not just make them feel better for 5 minutes. It is irresponsible. There are some elders that would know that, and many many more that would not. Think about the elders in underdeveloped nations for example. I do all the time. I served in one. They will overread into everything the branch does or DOES NOT tell them as having purpose. Many peopel here in the US as well.
It really can be very irresponsible. I think that is the point here.
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undercover
The instructions to the elders is not some top secret, classified, no-one must know information. In fact, most of their information is originally referenced FROM the public WT publications that we ALL read.
Well... part no and part yes. They have an "elders only" handbook and it is most definitely classified. But, you are correct about most of the information in it: most - not all, but most - of the info is referenced from prior WT publications, which still means the same thing....
It's all bullshit.
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Christ Alone
Well said, problemaddict. There is nothing wrong with using the scriptures to comfort others. But there becomes a point where mere intelectual knowledge is not suitable. If it is a chemical imbalance, no amount of bible reading, meeting attendence,elders meetings, field service, etc will be enough to help the problem. Only professional help, therapy, and/or medication can help such ones.
If someone is contemplating suicide, the direction should ALWAYS be to go to a medical professional. I would go so far as to say that one should NEVER avoid a professional if one is contemplating suicide.
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Christ Alone
To see how the elders DO hide the book from outsiders, see this video. The part about hiding the elders info is around 4:50:
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Londo111
In regard whether pastors should be paid…it has scriptural precedent. Paul did not ask for anything from the Corinthians, but oftentimes, he did accept provisions from elsewhere. If you read these passages, Paul certainly had the right to do so, and did not decry those who serve full time not to have provisions.
1 Corinthians 9:6-14
Or is it only Barnabas and I that do not have authority to refrain from [secular] work? Who is it that ever serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard and does not eat of its fruit? Or who shepherds a flock and does not eat some of the milk of the flock?
Am I speaking these things by human standards? Or does not the Law also say these things? For in the law of Moses it is written: “You must not muzzle a bull when it is threshing out the grain.” Is it bulls God is caring for? Or is it altogether for our sakes he says it? Really for our sakes it was written, because the man who plows ought to plow in hope and the man who threshes ought to do so in hope of being a partaker.
If we have sown spiritual things to ? YOU , is it something great if we shall reap things for the flesh from ? YOU ? If other men partake of this authority over ? YOU , do we not much more so? Nevertheless, we have not made use of this authority, but we are bearing all things, in order that we might not offer any hindrance to the good news about the Christ. Do ? YOU ? not know that the men performing sacred duties eat the things of the temple, and those constantly attending at the altar have a portion for themselves with the altar? In this way, too, the Lord ordained for those proclaiming the good news to live by means of the good news.
Here we see that Paul accepted provisions from other churches in harmony with the above:
2 Corinthians 11:8-9
Other congregations I robbed by accepting provisions in order to minister to YOU ; and yet when I was present with YOU and I fell in need, I did not become a burden to a single one, for the brothers that came from Macedonia abundantly supplied my deficiency. Yes, in every way I kept myself unburdensome to YOU and will keep myself so.
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Christ Alone
Here is the video without the first part on Child custody. It shows the elder lying about having a publication that others do not have access to: